Building a Twin Engine SR Fronty Racer Part 6 - Wonder what it would look like with 2x DO Fronty Engines

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Building a Twin Engine SR Fronty Racer Part 6 - Wonder what it would look like with 2x DO Fronty Engines
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 02:43 am:

I've ben getting a bit done on the Twin Engine SR Fronty so I though I would send some more pics of the restoration.

I made the Centre Steer Box Mounts from 1926 Star Connecting Rods by welding 2 rods together with the one Big end.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 02:47 am:

Ends were filled with Weld and ground back for mounting holes, then offset on the ends to clear the body




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 02:55 am:

After fitting the mounts into the body, a dummy tube is fitted to one side and the bracket removed, bent, replaced so the tube lined up with the bracket on the other side. I repeated the process with the bracket on the other side till both mounts were parallel



A Steering Box Tube on the original Box I had, had to be replaced and trued, then fitted to the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:01 am:

My good friend, Ralph Boyer of Detroit, organized the spokes for the rear wheels. So I laced them in and had someone true them for me




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:02 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:10 am:

After welding in Broken Lugs and filling a couple of extra valve holes, I straightened the correct Hayes rims in the press by checking for buckles on a large flat plate of glass and chalking the bend. Working you way around the rim in the press, they finally are trued in that plain.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:16 am:

Then the rims were sent away, sand blasted and hot dipped



After cleaning the dags off the coating, they were then checked again for straightness in both plains.

Photo shows straightening in the other plain. Measuring across the rim and getting the diameter equal all the way around. Not easy to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:22 am:

Front Radius Rods are Next. I made the dies some time ago. The end of the Chrome Molly Tube is marked with Chalk for the depth into the spring loaded press. The tube is heated, kept parallel with the Guide and press as fast as I Could go. Takes 3 attempts to get it completely flat. Not an easy job working by yourself.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:22 am:

Looking good! Looks like a lot of work for those wheels. But I imagine it will pay off at the speeds it should be able to do.
Thanks for the update! I do enjoy seeing others make progress on their projects.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:25 am:

Ends are cut off and drilled. Top Rod Holes are larger then the bottom rod holes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:29 am:

Top rod ends are bent to line up with the Radius Rod Frame Mount (1925-27 Radius rod Ball Fittings from a 4 dip Crankcase)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:33 am:

Once the top rod is cut to length, the bottom rod is fitted off and measured and cut to length. (the frame and front spring have been trued and loaded with weight before this is done)



They are then aligned and tack welded, removed and welded


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:34 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:40 am:

I Used 1926-27 Chev Spindles with Model T Style Bushings. Tapped the bush, plugged it with a bolt and hammered it out.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:43 am:

The Mercury Front Axle was faced using a Stevens Facer. Bushes fitted and faced




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:45 am:



New Ball fitted to the Spindle Arm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:50 am:

Front Axle Assembled


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:56 am:

I made a piece of 1 3/4 inch exhaust pipe with a piece of flat bar welded inside. Found the centre of the flat bar. drilled it with a small hole.

This was then fitted to the right side steering Tube Support and a hole drilled through the body. Then a larger hole scribed out on the outside of the body and the hole cut out for the shaft

Steering box fitted (needs a lot more work in the gears)



Steering wheel Fitted


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:04 am:

Front Hartford Shock Absorber axle mounts were fitted off




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:07 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:17 am:

I had a lot of trouble fitting the front wheel felt Seals. They were soaked in oil for weeks. Fist set I bent up getting them in, so I machined up a rocket and sleeve to press them in. The rock end fitted up inside the wheel bearing as a guide. It does work quite well




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:21 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:23 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:28 am:

Last year I fitted single Cam Fronty engines to the car to see what it looked like.

Here are some photos




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:29 am:





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:31 am:






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:32 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:44 am:

But that doesn't look as good as it would with Twin DO Front Engines.

Here are some photos of the car up on wheels finally with a 350CI 32 Valve Quad Cam Fronty/s engine, all possible in the 1920s. The engines are too expensive to use. I robbed parts from my other Frontys just to see what it looked like.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:45 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:47 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:49 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:52 am:





The Steering still needs a lot of work. Spindle arms need changing to clear the front Radius Rod so I can sue a straight tie rod. This one is temporally set up. Also the rear axle needs changing to 1926-27 style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 05:31 am:

Links to previous parts

Part 1
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/267846.html
Part 2
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/268811.html
Part 3
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/271799.html
Part 4
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/356849.html?1366491564
Part 5
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/356944.html?1366789970


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 06:33 am:

Cool, have you decided which ones to use?
And isn't it the comparingly cheaper bottom ends that risks breaking in use ;)

No fun with toys that are too expensive to use.. use them while you can! If something breaks and you can't fix it (unlikely) then it'll still look good on display in a museum :-)

Do you think the rear axle will handle all the power, or are you planning some upgrades for more strength?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 06:46 am:

Mark. Wow. Mind blown. To say your craftsmanship is impressive is an understatement.

Question: why/how do you have ALL of the Fronty's? I mean. Holy smokes. Any one of those engines would make an absolute rocket of a speedster. You have at least 4, and if I read your post right there's even more? How'd you end up with all of them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 11:52 am:

Thanks for the update and the great pictures. I have thought about it over the last months and wondered how it was doing.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roy Mathis, Van Buren, AR on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 12:11 pm:

That is unbelievable! It amazes me how talented some people are when I can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Thanks Mark for posting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 01:19 pm:

As Patrick Stewart said in the movie DUNE....

Patrick Stewart

"Egads what a monster"

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 02:12 pm:

I've never been so jealous of anybody in all my life...

A DO Fronty is incredible, but 2 DOs, 2 single OHCs, and 2 SRs plus the ability to build a car like that???

I want to be just like you when I grow up. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:25 pm:

From another forum members collection


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

Wowser! It's good to know these are out there. Even better to see Mark making progress on his fantastic machine. I'd love to hear these run and see some well earned oil leaks dripping from them. Static displays in a museum are fine and I can appreciate them but oh to hear them roar again would be wonderful!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Sullivan, Powell WY on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 04:53 pm:

I could listen to this all day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4hvvI4M4RI


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 07:40 pm:

Hurry up Mark, you need to be ready for the Indy 500 this year...you will win. You are already in the Speedster / Racer Hall of fame, might as well be on the Indy trophy.

The world has never seen such a Model T racer and your work is outstanding.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 07:57 pm:

I'm interested in how you're "timing" the two engines. Are they hooked up so that there is a cylinder firing every 90 degrees. It looks like that would put the least strain on the rear crank. I'd also like to see that pan on the front engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 11:06 pm:

Thanks everyone for you encouraging comments, appreciated. I have quite a few Frontys and have been collecting since the early 1980s and restoring since the mid 1990s. A good friend once told me, collecting speed gear is like a virus. Once you get it, you can’t stop. He is correct.

The parts don’t just fall into your lap, they have to be chased up. A lot came from helping other people out with left over bits.

I am no one special and sometime struggle with restoration problems that come up. Anyone could do what I do, it’s a matter of having a go.

To answer some questions:

The Engine coupling is not done yet. It will be 2 Sprockets and a chain wrapped over like some of the other twin speedster are.

I intend to redo the crankcase in folded steel plate with angle iron side braces. At present it is 2x 25-27 Crankcases, cut and joined by two tapered flat plates on each side. It has too much sideways movement in the join. The weight of the engines is like putting lots of weight on the centre of the edge of a 6 foot plate in the centre, forcing it to flip to the weaker side. Not happy how this one turned out.

Yes the Rear axle is weak, but I am trying to keep it as much model T as possible. To me it’s not about going fast, it is to look fast. It is period and eventually I would like to get it running and drive it. To make it fast, where do you stop. Bigger wheels….. bigger Rear Axle….. later Gearbox…… later engines and it all becomes 1930s. I prefer to keep it 1920s.

I will be using SR Fronty Engines. That is probably pushing it a bit for what really was around in the 1920’s. I have seen a photo of a Twin Rajo c1920, so they did exist.

The bottom end will be weak. I will be changing it to 1926-27 to help get the Semi floating bearing in and better brakes. DO’s from the 1920s used stock Rear Axles. Some used a bronze ended bolt up against the crown wheel, opposite the pinion for support. This bolt needed adjustment possible after every race.

I do intend to run the cranks at 90 deg to each other and fire from bank to bank alternately and keep the firing as close to 4 bores apart at any one time, as I can. Someone with more experience might be able to help out there. I intend to use one distributor on the rear side of the front engine, to fire it all.

As for the Indy 500, Tim, I don’t think the other competitors would like to be beaten by some old codger in a 90yo car. Best to let them win than whine………….ha……….ha……..

Thanks everyone

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison (Vancouver Washington) on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 03:55 pm:

Bravo Mark....Bravo.


I REALLY hope you re consider and run the DOHC Fronty heads.... :D


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