Ford T Cycle Car

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Ford T Cycle Car
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Phillips on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 04:29 pm:

No doubt this has been covered before
but was wondering what was used to power the Model T look alike cycle car that Henry built or was it not developed that far - pedals perhaps? cycle car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 09:10 pm:

It has been discussed before.
It had a two main bearing crankshaft.
The engine was much smaller than the T engine.
It was in the vintage Ford some years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 10:05 pm:

From The article.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Friday, January 30, 2015 - 09:47 am:

Was this car part of or manufactured for the 1914 Chicago Cycle Car Show? Interesting that in 1920, Roger B. Whitman's (Motorcycle Principals and Light Car) includes the Model T as a cycle car.

"Distinctive parts of the cycle car, as well as those mechanisms of the Ford car that differ from standard automobile practice, are also described,...."

From the Henry Ford Archives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller on Friday, January 30, 2015 - 05:02 pm:

So if that car has a nice square-into-round hood, how come T's of that era didn't?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, January 30, 2015 - 07:46 pm:

I think Ford made the cycle car as a one off just to discourage investors in the cycle car craze these years. From what I've read it was just driven around Detroit and parked where potential investors and producers of cycle cars would see it..

Changing the production line for the Model T hoods would have cost much more and may have disrupted production - Ford could sell all he could produce, all efforts were concentrated on increasing production capacity and lowering costs. There were production problems with the smooth 1915 style cowls so 1915 style open car production didn't start until January 1915, while the new models usually were in production early autumn the year before in time to sell to farmers with fresh harvest money ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Phillips on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 12:23 am:

putting spindly wheels on a model T with a 3 litre engine doesn't make it a cycle car. I don't get it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 12:44 am:

It's not a 3 litre engine, everything is scaled down on this experimental prototype.

The body looks so good and so much like what was to come for Ford - maybe the body styling was done by 21 year old Edsel Ford?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 01:03 am:

I sent a link to this thread to the author of the article Don Black.
His response:

"You find the funniest things. That article was from a lot of years ago. When I originally saw this little beauty, I thought there 'taint many T's cuter that this! I mean, it was the Bee's Knees! I don't how FOMOCO is today with public requests, but they were sure kind to me, and graciously opened their files, and sent me these great black and whites - 8 X 10's! During those times, with a simple letter request, Ford's public relations office would also send a direct copy, in size and paper cover color, of the 1914 Model T Instruction Booklet! It was an actual photo copy of the original...and I remember on one page, there was an ink, handwritten correction...I think it was on the wiring to the commutator! So fun.

Thanks for sharing...

By the way, a few months ago I came across a picture of a guy's T Speedster, and if I remember right, I think it was a custom made, polished metal, body, and he had adopted motorcycle wire wheels to it...and it was down right neat looking... Had a serious look of the original accessory ones! It may have been you who sent it!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 10:05 am:

If it ever was run/tested,it would be nice to know how the stiff crankshaft held up?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 01:55 pm:

Gas Engine magazine 1908 carried an article on crank shaft design for four cylinder engines. It mentions that .." the most striking and daring design in a four cylinder design was the two main bearing design." The example put forth was the 12-16 HP Delahaye. Reason given for this design was it was weight saving and there was less machine work needs for producing the crank shaft. The illustration showed a two main bearing crankshaft with roller bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Lots of early fours had two-bearing cranks including Flanders, Hupmobile and Hudson. Later on, the first MG Midgets had two-bearing cranks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 04:01 pm:

Those axles look pencil thin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 06:55 pm:

Herb, I have a couple of those reprint 1914 Instruction Booklets. One shows the reprint date (March 1954) and the other does not. They both have the same underlining, circling and margin note on how to set the commutator.

I never knew why a manual would be printed with these notes in it. Now I do! My dad must have gotten them while he was working at Ford in the 1950's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 02:52 pm:

The 1918 Oldsmobile V8 had a two main crank.
I looked under one with the pan off and saw it for myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 04:16 pm:

Aaron, I bet crank failures were common with that car.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 05:17 pm:

The Austin 7 which was introduced in 1922 and continued until 1936 had a 750cc engine (probably 50 cu in) had a two bearing crank. With such a small engine and low power (12 hp) the crank held up quite well.
The Seven was licensed in Germany (BMW) Japan (Datsum) and USA (Bantun) so it must have held up well all over the world.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 07:36 pm:

Tony, I heard that the Bantum came with a 7 hp or the 12 hp motor. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stanley L Brown Drury, MA on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 07:50 pm:

The Farmall tractors had two main cranks with roller bearings and there thousands still running.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 10:12 pm:

Scott, the English had a weird system of HP rating. The RAC HP rating was based only on the bore of the engine, it ignores the stroke. This bore is used in an arbitrary formula which gives the RAC HP rating. Very roughly it provides one RAC HP for each 100cc of capacity at the modest engine speeds of the 1900-1935,, thus the 747cc Austin is rated at 7 RAC HP. By dyno measured HP the Austin 7 had about 12 HP.
The license fees were based on the RAC HP, which means that most English engines were small bore and very long stroke and somewhat lower engine speeds compared to say the other European manufacturers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 12:09 pm:

I have not had the opportunity to see the article about the Ford Cycle Car in Vintage Ford, with that said, I find the appearance of a miniature Ford of interest. Beginning in 1913, there was an interest in small light cars. Motor Age presented articles, car show information, and multiple manufactures interested in small light vehicles, the cycle car was apparently attracting car buyers and their investors attention.

From the literature of the period, beginning in 1913, there appeared to be a trend prior to World War I to manufacture small light cars - the cycle car. Motor Age circa 1913-1914 carried an article titled - The Cycle Car as America See it - (The growth of a new industry has made wonderful progress…). It appears that the Blood Brothers of Kalamazoo, Mich. constructed a cycle car, called the Cornelian. The car was driven from Kalamazoo to Detroit and showed to Henry Ford. The car was parked out front of the Ford plant. The drive train was a shaft drive, with a two speeds and reverse transmission. The article states that the car sparked a rumor that Ford was experimenting with a cycle car design. At the time of the Blood visit to Ford, Motor Age magazine listed over 60 cycle car companies ready and starting production.

Shortly after the Blood visit to Detroit, 28 January 1914, the Ford Motor Company issued the following statement - Another Ford Rumor Denied. The company was denying that it will be producing a miniature car or cycle car. Even though Henry Ford was seen driving around Detroit in a miniature car of the cycle car design.

Attached is a picture of the Cornelian that the Blood Brothers showed to Henry.

Information found in Motor Age.


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