Straightening a starter nose??

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Straightening a starter nose??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 05:02 pm:

I'm pretty good at messing parts up so I thought I'd ask before attempted this. Can I use a lot of heat and gently pull the nose back into close alignment? It is out over a 1/16.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 05:16 pm:

Shim? U need a nose? I have a few. Where are U????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 05:30 pm:

I'm in North East Texas, a small town, Atlanta, 75551. If I replace the bushing the way it is now I will cut almost all the way through the close side. Yes I'll need a nose if I can't make this one better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 05:55 pm:

Let me know if your "IF" doesn't pan out and I'll send you one. If you don't want to list your address here, send me a pm. See my profile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 06:49 pm:

Could the problem be in your setup rather than the starter nose?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 06:57 pm:

Your setup could be introducing a lot of runout. If you made the faceplate, I assume you know some machining and to check the runout on both the OD and face. I can't make out how you have the bracket attached to the faceplate. If you're using the screw holes, how do you know the holes in the faceplate are concentric to the bore? Or for that matter, if the mounting surface of the bracket is square (perpendicular) to the bore? That's one of the reasons I don't use that type of setup.

Also check for burs around the mounting holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 06:59 pm:

Ops. I should refresh before I start typing. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 07:32 pm:

Bob, Can you spin the housing on a shaft and face the housing where the bolts go? I use a live center in the tail stock and a center in the jaws to check for run out. Between centers and a lathe dog you can face the housing true. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 08:06 pm:

I have not had a problem with the set up in the past, I use a dial indicator to check the jig on two axes. And I checked the nose, once mounted, at the milled ring just past the face and it is within .002. I don't know how it got so out of whack but the casting at the outer bushing is way off. that's picture from a previous set up. I checked the inside and the face this time and it is within .001. There is a relief cut for the lug on the nose and the ring fits very tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

Here is a 2009 thread that might be helpful:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/89193.html?1240501728


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 08:26 pm:

Hal, I'll sure take one, Bob Shirley - 644 Texas HY 77 West - Atlanta TX- 75551. 903 824 1949 Let me know how much I owe you and thanks in advance. Scott I'll cut a shaft in the morning. Thanks for all the help to everyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 11:38 pm:

I'll try to get it out tomorrow. Knee surgery has me hobbling a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 10:45 am:

Bob,

Sounds like it's no good the way it is. You might as well give straightening a try. You've got nothing to loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 10:48 am:

You might also try putting a mandrel through the nose and cutting the flange true to the axis of the bores. Then, set it up the way you've got it now and bore the bushings to size and true.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 10:59 am:

You don't need heat to straighten it, although it might make it easier.
IIRC they're made out of cast steel, not cast iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 01:54 pm:

Ken, what is IIRC ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 02:13 pm:

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

OMG!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 07:51 pm:

You have to understand all the original machining steps and their order of sequence to align the starter mounting bracket prior to re-bushing the Bendix drive stop nut running area.
You cannot use the main bore in the mounting bracket for indexing this part for machining any surface. It is not a precision bored hole, has been reamed and full of chatter marks which make it unsuitable. Take a close look and you will see that. The fixture needs to use the flange (no burrs) for axial alignment and flange lip that mates the flange to the starter case for radial alignment.
You can then bore the Bendix stop nut running area, re-bush and align bore it.
Many years ago I struggled with this problem and it took a master machinist with a excellent forensic mind about how parts are manufactured to straighten me out.
Many brackets have badly worn stop nut running bushings and some brackets are bent too badly to save.
Here is a photo of the brackets I have re-bushed.
1
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 09:58 am:

Thanks for ALL the help! You guys are the best. Following your advice, I cut a mandrel and re-faced the rear of the mounting flange. Put in back in the fixture and cut the bore, it was almost dead on this time. Thanks again. And OT, but while cutting the mandrel, gave me a chance to zero the tail stock on a new to me lathe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 01:23 pm:

Bob,

You should probably take a cut on both sides of the flange to ensure that both faces are parallel & perpendicular to the bearing bores. One face will get things aligned with the starter motor, the other face will get the starter aligned well with the ring gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 01:39 pm:

In my view all you guys are doing is overly complicating a very simple fix for this common Model T starter problem..
Ron the Coilman


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