Engine no.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Engine no.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 05:06 pm:

I'm getting close to taking the Hack I'v been building for the past 2 years to my State of Texas Courthouse to apply for a title. I'll register it as a 25 as the block lacks the 26/7 "ears". It has the earlier hog's head. But, I've built it up and it runs so....it is what it is. All of the mechanics are from my treasure trove of 40 plus years of collecting, begging, stealing and what's ever. The block carries the no. 16153960. From where this no. was derived I haven't a clue. I suppose that's the no. I should use when applying for a title. The engine carries a water pump which means the no. is hidden form view, unless the pump is removed. No, the pump stays. So, unless some one who has done this before can give me some advise otherwise, I guess I'll stamp the above no. into the frame near the starter switch and go from there. I found out that first I have to get a state inspection certificate, a bond of some sort and records showing that the vehicle was constructed from parts to which I have a stack of recites. Any advice from those who have traveled down this road before will be much appreciated. Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 05:19 pm:

I would stamp it in the same place that the '26 and '27's were stamped in case the inspector knows where the Model T's were supposed to be stamped. That way it will seem more "original" to him. He knows it a mixture of parts so it won't raise any red flags. Don.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 07:55 pm:

I would sacrifice a twenty cent gasket to get to the number stamp that is hidden by the water pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 08:56 pm:

What kind of water pump do you have that blocks the number. Even back in the day they would need to see the number when doing inspections which some city and states had.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 09:13 pm:

"The block carries the no. 16153960" but "the no. is hidden form view"? So where did you get that number? It's obviously not a Model T number, because the last T engine was # 15176888. A pre-26 number would start with 12 or less. I agree, find out what's really on the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 10:43 pm:

Jerry,

A regular Texas State inspection station will confirm the number and fill out the paper you take him. I know a station on the west side of town that will fill that paperwork out. Bring him the car and Fred will probably accept a picture of the number if you take it off and get a photo. If not, Martine will just take off the pump and get it. I had one done some years ago and they don't even put the sticker on the car unless you want it. It can't take thirty minutes if you call ahead.

Many years ago, we had to take the cars to a Texas Department of Motor Vehicles office and they would do all that number confirmation routine. Texas has let the regular inspection stations do that for years now.

I would definitely get that number off the block. You will then have a Texas title that the number matches the number on the block. Of course you have had to check with the MVD to be sure that number is clear on their records. How can it not be clear if you have the block? The 16153960 is clear too because of what Steve has said above.

Any Harris County Court House Annex will then sell you a plate, antique or regular, if you have the insurance paperwork.

Ken in Houston Tx

(Message edited by drkbp on February 02, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 08:52 am:

Steve, the no came off the block. It's not a correct no. that's in sequence with what is regarded as manufacturing index no's. Most, if not all, T water pumps hide the no's from view. The no's. there, it just can't be seen. The idea of taking a picture of the no. is what I was looking for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 09:31 am:


So I gather the number is in the usual place, like this, and you had the pump off to see it or were able to see it from the front or rear like this. If that number is above the water inlet, as the picture shows, and hasn't been changed, it means you have a replacement block. Assembled engines came from the factory with serial numbers, but bare blocks were unnumbered, and were supposed to be stamped with the number of the old block they replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 09:51 am:

industrial motors were made way up to wwII, so his number would be 28ish? or did they not just continue the same numbers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:57 am:

They didn't make as many when producing replacement engines, so the last Ford # for Model T engines was 15,176,888 in 1941 as Steve wrote above. The 16 million number may have been misread when transferred from an old engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 12:27 pm:

Sounds like it is time to see if it has a casting date.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 07:47 pm:

Steve, how you managed to get that pic is beyond me but.....Think I'll remove the pump, take a pic and be done with it. How whomever came up with a 16153950 number is beyond my wildest thinking but it there. So, I'll just go from there. Thinks all, Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 07:52 pm:

Jerry: Do we need to have another discussion about water pumps??? Regards, Tim :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison North of Iowa on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 08:04 pm:

I wish people would understand how water pumps restrict flow in a thermo-siphon system. Between that and the fact they're designed to leak causes me to always remove them and put them on the shelf.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 08:32 pm:

In the past Texas wanted a tracing or rubbing of the number. Might want to do that while the pump is off. Also in Texas a JP or county judge can issue a court order declaring ownership. Call me if you have questions, Bob Shirley, Atlanta TX 903 824 1949.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

So the question remains: Where did you find that number? "On the block" covers a lot of territory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 11:13 pm:

On the side of the block just above the water inlet.There is no question about it. The number is outrageous but it's there. I'm not so good at posting pictures but there's a 12 year old kid down the street that can do it. Maybe a ice cream malt will do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 02:10 am:

OH MY GAWD STEVE !! A waterpump !?!?!?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 08:28 am:

If that's the number on the engine, use it to title the car. The DMV folks don't know how many numbers there for Model T's. If you can show them a number, they'll be fine with using it to ID the vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 09:07 am:

Steve, I buy the "replacement" block theory except I think all replacement blocks after the introduction of the 26-27 Improved engine would be the later "Improved" style with the bolts for the hogs head. Jerry, when you get the picture of the number, please post it here for us to see....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 11:08 am:

the dot has the same numbers we do. they will know somthing aint right


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

Thanks to all for their help. What would we do without the forum. Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 06:30 am:

Clayton, That could be possible in some states--maybe. But at least around here, they don't have a clue. When I registered my pickup from Canada I gave them the number, they asked a couple of curiosity question, and on my way I went. I am in a pretty major city, so it is not like going to a DMV out in the sticks somewhere. I actually get more hassle doing modern cars if something isn't right.

Jerry, a couple of thoughts as to why the number may not be "correct". That number could be in use on another vehicle somewhere--maybe not even in your state anymore, and is just made up----or maybe a long time ago, a unregistered vehicle needed to be registered and someone made up the number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 11:14 am:

just a couple months ago when i got the title for the 21 touring i have for sale, the guy at the inspection station wanted to argue with me because there is no body number. he said he was not going to pass the inspection. so i called the state dmv and told them the story. the guy on the phone had me hold for a minute while he checked his book. he came back and said "according to our books, that era ford only has one number, on the left side of the engine, just like you told me, and that number is 1921, just like you told me" so, i do think its in all states data base if they want to look


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX. on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 07:47 pm:

Chad, you may be on the right trail. All I know is the no. is where one would expect it to be but obviously not in communion with what Ters would expect it to be. The suggestions I have received so far, and they are good ones, are I should do a rubbing, take a pic's as best I can, punch the no's into the frame, go to the courthouse, bible in hand, pray for the best and go for it. So, that I'll do. Next chapter to come. My thanks to all...your good..Jerry.


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