"Sherman" deep sump oil pan useage questions.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: "Sherman" deep sump oil pan useage questions.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:15 am:

Im thinking about using a deep sump Sherman oil pan. Just wondering about its useage. I will be having a basically stock engine. I am using a DU4 mag assembly on the front of my 1925 starter engine. It has the mag on the left side, so I still have the generator opening that I could mount an oil pump in. My main question is, with all the oil in the sump, do I need some kind of a "baffle" to keep it from "sloshing around too much. Also If I do not want to add the oil pump, is there any way to utilize this sump and get any gain from it. Im mostly after the "looks" of it but want it to function to a certain extent.

sherman 1

sherman 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:28 am:

If you use long enough screws, you can sandwich the original inspection plate in place with gaskets in between.. With a connection from the flywheel area of the pan into the bottom of this extra sump you'll get extra capacity of oil giving better cooling - that's about all you can use this sump for without going full oil pressure to the rods, I think?

Without a drilled crank and oil pressure, I would be worried about not enough splashed oil inside the sump for lubrication of the rod bearings if you don't have any oil dips for the rods to splash in?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:34 am:

You could consider installing some "spray nozzles" along the pan rail to hit each rod dipper as it came by. That coupled with pressure to each main would get you up to 1930's Chevrolet design


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:58 am:

Roger, I thought about the extra cooling, by connecting it how you mentioned, But with no oil pump I think it would not have a real good heat transfer as the oil will not be moving very much. I had always thought about using an oil pump at the generator location, and plumb it to just pump oil to the front of the engine. I could do that with this pan and gain a lot of cooling as well as maintain a good oil supply for the splash system. With an oil pump, I could also install a filter of some sort. I believe a stock dip pan sandwiched between the two pans, is the way to go. I can connect the oil supply from the rear of the Sherman pan to the trans sump. Then hook the oil pump intake to a line from the front of the Sherman sump. Then the output of the oil pump to a fitting at the extreme front of the T oil pan/crankcase. The oil should flow thru the stock ford dipper troughs, and drain back into the crankcase, where it will flow into the Sherman pan and be cooled, and then thru the pump and back to the front of the engine again... I believe there is enough gain with that setup to justify doing the Sherman oil pan. Im just trying to find out, if there are some other setup versions that may work that I have not thought of ... Im not trying to build a high speed racer or hill climber. Im mostly for looks, but I want it to be justified and do some work.... Thanks for the input


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 11:45 am:

If the generator located pump sucks from the front of the extra sump, maybe it'll go dry on steep uphill grades?

Hmm, maybe a combination, with a Texas T style oiler on the hogshead and the pump from the sump, then you'll always have oil flow going uphill or downhill :-)

The Sherman pan isn't very deep in the rear.. You may have to check if the fourth dip on the regular plate has to be modified to fit, clearance to the rod etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 01:42 pm:

As Roger said, use the dipper tray, You Have Too.

The way I have always put in sumps is use 1/2 inch pipe in the dipper plate, and drill a hole between the dippers on the flat area, don't do anything with the dipper in the tray. I have always used one but two or three may not hurt.

Stick the pipes up through the cover, and weld, or braze them in. They should not be over 1/2 inch high, or your engine will smoke from to much oil splash into the pistons.

Also, build a dam in the rear of the pan, that is the same height as the oil pipe, of a 1/2.

In the bottom of the dam drill a hole on each side so the oil can drain at rest, and for changing oil.

You also have to drill the boss on your pan at the rear for a large pipe, or connection that go's to the pan behind it, at least an inch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 02:14 pm:

Herm: If Im following your description. You are running a sump with no oil pump and the 1/2 inch pipes set no more than 1/2 inch above the dipper plates are what is supplying the "oil flow" to the sump. The one inch pipe between the rear of the sump and the front of the crankcase sump is just to maintain a equal oil level and also a return/supply. Maybe by using a Texas T oiler to also feed the front of the engine I would have a pretty good oil flow thru the sump.??? I like the idea of keeping my generator if I can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 04:50 pm:

That's about it Donnie, you are raising the oil level a 1/2 inch.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 05:10 pm:

Thanks Herm. Ill have to contact the seller now and find out if running a dipper tray is a problem. It does look like it may be very close. Thanks everyone for the input...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 07:51 pm:

Contacted the seller/manufacturer today. He says the Sherman sump "will" be able to use the original stock dipper tray sandwiched between the crankcase and the Sherman. He said the same as Herm, that I "will" have to use the stock dipper tray if not using an oil pump. He also recommended that an outside "hogshead" oiler like a Texas T or even an "Apco" could be used to circulate the oil thru the sump. Or it could be plumbed (like Herm recommended) to the front of the crankcase, for the oil to run back thru the stock dipper trays and drain thru some oil holes like Herm recommended. So it looks like the speedster project may have to have one of these deep sumps. :-) :-) (after Chickasha) :-) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 06:48 am:

where does the wishbone mount


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 08:18 am:

I don't think it will change anything on the wishbone. That's why the deep part is so far forward. It won't matter for Donnie anyway as he's using an accessory wishbone that is mounted on the frame rails.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 09:50 am:

I did not ask about the wishbone. But I agree with Seth. The shape and placement of the sump should clear the wishbone ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 10:09 am:

A good thing too that you are using a different wishbone as you'd be making things pretty complicated with a stock setup: if you run a line from the sump to the crankcase, it'd be underneath the wishbone. Which means if you wanted to drop the wishbone you'd have to drain the oil and disconnect the line so that it wasn't trapping it. Or, I guess you could remove the ends on the axle every time and then do some maneuvering to extract it.


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