Touring rear door sill

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Touring rear door sill
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:10 pm:

Does anyone have any photos of where the rear door sill meets up with the rear door corner block? I am trying to create an entire 1924 Touring from pieces including a complete wood frame & can't find any good photos of the body panel condition at the rear door sill . Also looking for how the side body panel attaches to the rear quarter panel (4 holes). Not sure if there are screws into the rear corner block or what?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:23 pm:

24 should have a steel rear pillar and the steel in the rear corner as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

I have the steel pillar. The part I am sure about is the metal lip right under the rear door. how does this transition to the lip on the rear quarter panels that wraps around the rear corner block? The lip on the body/patch panels that I have are not as wide as that on the quarter panel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 11:29 pm:

On the earlier bodies there is a piece of wood in there. Most of patch panels are made wrong,and you have to do some altering to get them to work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 06:42 am:

Thomas,

Photos of replacing the rear seat support/box on a 1923 touring are located at: http://mtfci2002.modelt.org/projects/touring_seatbox/touring_seatbox.htm They may also show a photo of the area you want to see. While the 1924 front cowl area changed significantly from 1923 the rear tub 1921 to 1925 is very similar and can be interchanged on the 1921-25 style bodies.

I noticed this is your first posting, so welcome to the forum! You didn't mention if this is your first T or if you have been driving and playing with Ts for the last 20 years or so. If this is your first T I would recommend you read the rest of this posting. If you have been around them for a long time and already know the difference between a 1923 model year and 1924 model year – then just skip the rest of my comments.

For someone brand new to Model Ts who is working to rewood / rebuild the body, it is important to determine what “year range” body you really have. Many owners establish the year of the car based on the year the title says or what the previous owner told them the year of the car was. But often times the year on the title is not actually the year of the body. Why? Multiple reasons. First, Ford introduced his changes at different times. For example the 1924 Model year touring was introduced in Aug 1923 (ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1924.htm see Model Year). And in many states a new car was titled in the year it was sold regardless of what the year model actually was. The engine serial number was used to title the car in most states and locations. And many folks swapped engines and sometimes they used the title that had the correct engine number with the car they were now driving. But a 1909-1927 engine & transmission will fit any 1909-1927 Model T with some minor modifications (may need a longer or shorter fan bracket, may need to change the slots on the floorboards (they were different for the 1926-27 improved engines), for the right hand drive folks – may need to remove the generator or change to a later steering column mount etc.). Also any 1909-1925 body will fit on any 1909-25 frame. Again some times it is a direct remove and replace – you can swap a 1915 to 1920 touring body no changes needed. Other times it requires slight modifications like changing out the gas tank from round to oval or relocating the gas line. And a few of the bodies like the 1915 Centerdoor or the 1911 Torpedo Roadster require more changes. But they will fit. I’ve swapped a few bodies and engines – especially when I was a teenager and on a very limited budget. I could have two cars and an extra body and none of them was very nice to drive. Or I could take all the parts and build one nice (ok – remember I was a teenager without a car) drivable car (in this case it was a modern car – 1928-29 Model A Ford) and one better left over car, and one really ratty body. I know I am not the only one to have done something similar to that during the past 100 years.

So, if someone is new to Model Ts do they know for sure what year range their body is? Or for that matter you can put the 1921-25 rear seat tub on the back of a 1915-1920 touring. It will function – but the body moldings are different so it doesn’t look quite right. It also has more metal framing and less wood in most cases than the earlier 1915-1920 style rear tub. For more information on deciding if you have a 1921-23 year range body or a 1924-25 year range body (there were some minor difference in those year ranges but very similar bodies) please see:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/202420.html

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/506876.html?1420335362 which also has a good illustration of the wood & metal frame of a 1921-23 touring. The rear seat area should be very similar for the 1924-25 tourings also.

And you do not have to build all the wood parts without some additional help. Leon Parker has some excellent wood plans for the tourings 1913 to 1927 I believe. You can send him a private message via the forum by going to his profile at: http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profil e=leon_parker-users

I also like to add a standard note for new folks: I would encourage you to check out the local Model T Ford club(s) near you. See:http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 They can be a real source of encouragement and help you as you learn to maintain the car. And if you look at a touring similar to the one you are working on -- it can really help you see what you need to do. Steve Jelf has an excellent set of books he recommends for new owners on his web site at:http://dauntlessgeezer.com/ with the T section at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html and the recommended books listed at:http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html Note there are also free “how to books” on the internet such – see:http://books.google.com/books?id=uKVAAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:xR 56bbT2W68C&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tdpWVMi4PMOjgwSAhoC4Ag&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=fa lseand there are others – but I didn’t see a 1926-27 one. And the Ford Service is online at:http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html

Good luck with your project and again welcome to the forum.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 04:56 pm:

Thomas

Here are couple of photos. From Aug 1924 touring, passenger rear door.


rear (heel) corner inside


front (toe) corner


from the outside, poor pic, and the rear fender blocks most of the view. Round head screws into the wood corner block hold the metal outside 1/4 panel on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 10:47 pm:

Thanks for the help! There is a lot more wood exposed than I expected so I will not have to fine tune my patch panels as much as I thought.

Hap - I grew up working on Model A's & T's & going to swap meets with my dad who currently has a 1931 160 B and a 1925 Model T Roadster. Neither are in driving condition but are close to it (need tires & upholstery) He has a good amount of T parts (all for cars in the 20's) so I decided to relive my childhood and make a complete car. I purchased a set of plans from Leon, you sent me a great article on rewooding, and am know having a great (but slow) time reviving the body & chassis. I am missing the front seat frame but otherwise I think I have close to a complete car give or take the small mechanical parts. Next on the list to revive would be a Coupe if I can find the rear window panel and the deck top panel. Rewooding plans would help to. There are parts out there so I am sure I will find them, I just wish I was closer to Chickasha. I am close enough to Bakersfield & Auburn swap meets so I do have those. I have some books, read a lot of messages on this Forum & will be joining a T club this month. I have enough knowledge to distinguish between model years but am no expert.

Everyone on this forum seams to be very interesting people & I am glad to have been bitten by the T bug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 06:35 am:

Thomas,

I apologize for forgetting your name. I am really bad with names and when I don't have a face or car etc. to associate the name with I am even worse.

Good news the 1924-1925 Model T Ford USA open car bodies were produced by Ford rather than several different body companies. Therefore the panels, brackets, etc. are much more standardized and interchange more easily than the earlier bodies where Beaudett parts might look similar but might not fit very well on a body produced by Fisher or Wilson etc.

The front seat frame should be interchangeable from the 1921 new style touring to 1925. I thought Howell’s Sheet metal http://www.fordor.com/ offered them in their catalog, but when I just looked I did not see them listed. I may have missed them. And of course Mark at http://modelthaven.com/index.html would have several as they tend to survive longer than the thin side panels of the body. The prices would be better at the swap meet and of course you could place a "Wanted" advertisement on the swap page at: http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?3487/3487

If you are looking at doing a 1924-25 coupe in the future, there are some wood plans available for that coupe body.

Good luck with your project. And since you are in California – I would recommend you start working your plans on how/where to have your “recently assembled” car titled. If you have a title for the engine number you are planning to use that should make it much easier than if you do not have any paper work for any of the parts yet.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 11:30 am:

1923 Touring:
Looking at some of the photos, makes me think that the rear seat sheet metal (seat back) sits on top of the wood top sills. Is this the case?
Thank you-Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker - Benton, Kentucky on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

Yes it does sit on top of the sills Paul. Leon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 07:45 pm:

As it so happens,the car in the Service manual is a 1924 and there are lots of pictures....


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