Replacing lower rear panel - advise needed

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Replacing lower rear panel - advise needed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Friday, February 06, 2015 - 08:46 pm:

I have bought a replacement lower rear panel, for a '26-27 Coupe. The one I removed from my car was a crappy home made two piece one (split in the center) that someone put on. It didn't have the step for the trunk lid to sit in. It wasn't, and didn't go on the same as original did.

Can someone explain how it's suppose to mount on. Is the top edge suppose to be bent over the brace (it has a wide top edge), or trimmed to fit, and tack welded. Does the bottom edge get tack welded on, along the bottom edge. I'm guessing the sides get matching holes for the bolts. Mine was welded on the sides, through the side brace holes, to the T strip.

I have everything removed, I'm replace the rain cutters, and the quarter corner. I have already replaced the rear sub-frame cross member.

Any advise is welcome.

Thanks, Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Saturday, February 07, 2015 - 09:28 pm:

Has anyone replaced one?

Would someone please measure how wide the top of the lower rear panel is. My new panel is 35 1/4 at the top, but my brace is only 34 3/4 wide. The bottom of the panel is 35 1/8 wide, and the area it goes into is 34 3/8 wide. The panel is 1/2-5/8 to wide to fit. Has anyone run into this? How did you solve it.

Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 09:23 am:

Pat,

I looked but so far I haven't run across anything that I have stored on my computer about the 1926-27 coupe lower panel.

Hopefully someone with access to a 1926-27 coupe will be able to take a look at their car and chime in with their measurement and hopefully some photos.

Good luck with your project.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 09:27 am:

that sounds normal for Texas tin !!!!!!!!!!! charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 10:05 am:

I've bought the same panel but for 26/27 runabout, had mostly the same issues (not such a width difference, though)
Some adjustments needed, not just to slap it in place.. Welding the lower brace is optional, it'll be clamped in place, but I tack welded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 10:13 am:

Isn't that panel supposed to have a slight curve in it? It would be longer than the opening if you measured the opening straight across.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 10:23 am:

This is an image of a Runabout/Roadster OEM/NOS deck posted in another thread. It has a similar panel that a lot of folks have problems installing. You can see the curve in the lower edge. I could be wrong but the I think the Coupe is similar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 11:07 am:

Mr. Clark:
I'm doing a similar project. I will get the requested measurements for you today. If you prefer, send me a PM and we can discuss in more detail.

Respectfully, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By harvey cash on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 12:17 pm:

I'm working on the same problem, My 27 coupe trunk lid is curved but the replacement panel I bought is straight. Does anyone have experience with this problem? Harv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

Mr. Cash:

That is my question too. There wasn't enough material left on my '26 to determine how much the lower edge curved outward. The horizontal sub frame interior to the lower edge of that rear panel is straight.

We know the lower edge of the deck lid has a curve, and the top lip of the panel below it must also have a curve, so logically the lower edge of the panel behind the spare tire mount must also curve outward. The problem I see is how to create this 'barrel' shape in the 'flat' replacement panel.

Respectfully, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 01:32 pm:

Does your new panel have the top to bottom curve? Or completely flat as you state?

There is a simple way to get the shape but you need the tools. It only takes a few minutes. You can get the shape by shrinking the center area along the flange. A wide area, not just in the center.

Photos of the rear or cars are rare. The interweb is pretty slim pickens too but I found this one. It was hit in the rear and moved the panel away from the deck lid but you can still see a slight bow at the bottom of the panel. This is common damage and most think the panel is straight. Where it shows up is the deck lid doesn't fit right and the gap at each side may be wider than at the top of the deck lid because it pushes the quarter panels out. It just depends how hard it was hit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 01:45 pm:

Here's a video example of how the shrinker works. Note that shrinking the flange will cause the other surface to bow. I'm NOT plugging Eastwood. In fact, I advise you seek the tool elsewhere or find someone close that has one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jGCt-CtrxY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 02:13 pm:

Ken:

The two pics are helpful, thanks. I agree on the stretching, and where it is needed. Good tip.

I made my panel from a '55 Ford hood, so it is not totally flat, but does need to be recurved more to match the edge where the lock engages. My original, rusty deck lid curves out by 3/8" at the latch point. The width measurement over the curve below the keyhole is about 1/16" more than the straight across width at the lip. The straight across the lip distance measures 34 3/8". With the original lower panel frame in place, the panel frame with the rubber bumpers,the 'trunk' opening just above the frame is 34 5/8" leaving a 1/8" gap on each side of the deck lid. There are two 3/16" diameter holes in the rain gutter on each side that align with two holes in the triangular metal pieces supporting the rubber bumpers. those pieces are integral with the panel frame. The c-c hole spacing in the frame is 34 5/8" on my original lower panel frame.

With the frame bolted in place the end to end space for a replacement panel is 35 1/4". I made my panel 35" even, so I can shim it as desired, leaving 3/16" extra on each end behind the ribs on either side of the deck lid.

Hope this helps mr Clark or others, pm if you have questions for me, it's balmy 36 degrease here today so a good day to work outdoors on this.

Respectfully, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 02:33 pm:

That would be "shrinking" but I got ya. :-)

There may be a situation where shrinking the flange on all four sides will cause the center of the panel to pull down and you'll loose the "bubble". Minor shrinking over a long distance should work but I'm concerned about the top to bottom curve along the quarters. If you start loosing the center raised area, it will have to be stretched or rolled to bring it up.

(Message edited by ccwken on February 08, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Skip Anderson, in MN. on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 06:53 pm:

Pat,
I replaced this outer lower panel, the trunk floor pan, the rear bottom cross bracket, and the spare tire inside brace. The rain gutters were good. First, the lower panel was purchased from Howell's, long delivery but excellent fit. 35-1/8" across top and bottom. Approx. 13" in height with a curved shape to fit the rain gutter and 1" flanged area on both sides that bolted to each rain gutter with (3) 1/4"x1/2" machine screws. The top of this panel has two bolts or rivets that attach to the triangular braces that has the rubber pads. I had to spread the two sides about 3/8" in order to get the panel in. With the floor pan out and the heavy cross bracket out, it went in fairly easily. Hope this helps, not a fun job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 07:10 pm:

Pat,

I don't know if this will be any help as I have not done this repair but I also have a '26 coupe that had that panel replaced before I got it from a body man. Without going out in freezing rain but from memory I know that he took the new panel and cut a slice on the overlap right in the center then another in the lower edge. This allowed him to "bow" it to fit in the 2 sides of the body without getting into the quarters or the trim piece. After that he fit the panel for the curve then welded up the 2 small 1" cuts when they were back flush with each other.

Mine isn't perfect but the trunk lid line matches horizontally with the lower panel and with the rear tire in place I have never worked anything else out (it still off a little in curvature and wouldn't take much work to bring it back). I think yours is too wide to make the curve and that is what you are fighting with. The way mine was replaced was a "body shop fix" and they do what takes the least amount of time and not a restoration fix but might work for you? You have enough metal to work in for the curve but I can see getting it into place can be a challenge.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 09:44 pm:

Thanks everyone!
My new panel came with the curve to the top edge, The cross brace curve lays on it good. and it 35 1/4 wide, with the curve. The bottom edge is straight, and it is 35 1/8 wide. My cross brace is out of the car right now. (everything is out, rear window, rain cutters, T strips, just the bare quarter panel edges.) It is 34 3/4 wide. it leaves 1/2" gap at the ends, on the inside. 1/4" at each end. Now, A body man (I use that word lightly) owned it before me, and was going to make a hot rod out of it, and didn't care how things fit. He was terrible at welding, good at hiding with bondo. The cross brace was welded to the triangles, where the rubber bumpers go. There are no rivets or rivet holes, on the cross brace The ends of the brace look like they could have been shorten,n ow that I look at it, but I can't tell for sure. I think the cross brace be whats wrong, it's to short.
When he made the center panel, he didn't put the step for the trunk lid to sit in, so the lid never sat right.
I just went out and turned the panel over, and took a good look at the panel. It was a new panel that he cut down the middle, I think to make it narrower. It does have the step for the lid to sit in, he just bondo'd it away! The panel I took out measures 34 3/8" wide. Yep that's narrower then the brace. I did fix the brace since I took it out. the ends were bent odd, and one side brace was not attached. (are they suppose to be welded on?)
I just measured the trunk lid and it is 34 3/8" wide, at the very bottom.

I think I need to make this cross brace the right width, that is where my problem is! I believe I should go with the 35" from end to end, the panel is 35 1/4 at the top.

Oh, I looked at how he welded the panel in. He had welded the side braces to the rear panel through the side bolt holes. There were no bolt holes in the panel sides, so it wasn't held to the quarters at all. Just to the top & bottom braces.


James,
What is "The c-c hole spacing in the frame is 34 5/8" on my original lower panel frame"
Is that the same as the, T strip to T strip?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 08:34 pm:

Well I went out today, and looked closely at the brace, I could see a line right next to the side brace. I put a little pressure on it, and it opened up. He had cut the ends off, and welded them back on.
I popped them off by hand, and made a 1/4" strip, and welded them back together, and now it fits the panel right.

Now I just have to clean the brace, the T strips, and the rain gutters of rust. Then I can put the complete back, back together again. Oh, wait. I have to replace the quarter panel corner, then put all together.

I wonder what I'll come across next that he did. For some reason he took the sub-frame cross members off, and welded 1"x2" steel in instead. I have replaced the cross members with factory ones.

Thanks for all the help!!!

Pat





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 10:04 pm:

Pat:

The hole centers in the rain gutter lie directly below the inner edges of the 'T' strip. So yes, on my '26 coupe the trunk opening at the top of the panel (inside of the T to inside of T and hole spacing on that original frame both measure 34 5/8"

Replacement panel length of 35 1/8 which would fit my opening behind those two "T" molding strips.

I would extend the frame to fit the inside of the new panel. I can see the two rivet holes in the frame for the triangular bracket that connects to the two holes in the rain gutter. If you have those two pieces you should be able to connect frame and new panel to rain gutter and have the proper panel height for the latch and width for trunk opening.

respectfully, jb


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