I was reading some recent posts and came on a post where someone asked for help.
He got a rather rude reply, and I wonder why? Surely we're all here because we want to help the hobby and keep the cars on the road.
So what sense is there in posting a non helpful reply that only serves to insult the original poster ? It doesn't help the poster, make us feel ill will towards the replyer and does nothing to help the hobby.
Some of us have strong feeling about how certain repairs should be done .... and that's fine, if it's your opinion and you offer it in a polite way.
But a reply that is designed to insult the original poster should be looked down on by all of us.
This is a great forum, i would hate to have a new guy to the forum read that post.
Just my $.02 worth
Good point, Bud.
But I would caution that everyone's idea of an insult is different, and some people
actually go looking for insults. Case in point:
In a recent thread about kids and snow, the posts had drifted in topic to one about
how our "safety" obsessed society won't allow us to do anything without a helmet
and eye protection (etc, ad nauseum), further drifting into comments into welfare
mothers and non-present fathers. I added my retort that the mother likely could not
positively ID the fathers anyway, and received a backchannel message from a member
about how insulting this was to a person WAY up in the earlier part of the thread !
I gave it some thought and wrote and explanation/apology to anyone else who might
have "read it that way", as I have no interest in alienating the crew here. But wow, ...
it really took some wanting to read an insult into that post to climb over a dozen other
drifting posts in between to get it !
Mean is bad. Humor is good. Old car guys tend to be a little socially "awkward"
and perhaps not the quickest wits when it comes to dry humor. We need to keep our
humor hats within close reach to filter out what IS an insult and what is someone's
wry response, as some have a hard time telling the difference.
maybe some don't like what i say!!! and i am sorry. but i try and only state the facts.charley
I agree with Burger that some people take offence very easily. Others just let it slide and do not say a thing when the reply is very rude. But I also agree with Bud, there are some rude people on here. I myself am the last person that would want to say something bad or hurt someones feelings. But we all have terms, words, phrases that mean something harmeless to us but hurtfull to others. A very common word for example is "nigger" Today that is one of the worst terms a white person can use. But when I was growing up, it was a common term, we used it all the time when speaking of black people. There was absolutely no bad meaning to it in our family and the general community we lived in. We had black friends and neighbors, it was just the term we used. It actually felt awkward to use the term Negro in our family and part of the world. But I am a hillbilly from the hills of Arkansas. It was an isolated, different part of the world. But later when I started traveling more, I found out how bad the word was perceived. When I worked as a Boilermaker I traveled all over the US. I had a hard time not letting the word "slip" If I was working with some black Boilermakers, I always made it a point to tell everyone that I may accidently use the term as it was a product of my raising and I meant nothing by it. Just by stating ahead of time my shortcoming with the word, I never had any problems with any black person, when I accidently said it. It actually became a joke among us... Since the folks on the forum are from everywhere, different ages, different lifestyles, and sometimes just "grumpy old men" it is very easy to say something that can be taken wrongly. Just my opinions, so please do not get mad at me
I grew up in S.F. and Seattle and that word was the most derogatory term one could use
toward a certain behavior that was generally associated with blacks. It occurred to me early
on that there were plenty of folks of ALL colors that the term fit, but it was generally blacks
who took offense to it when used by persons of other colors towards them, perhaps coming
from a long tradition of segregation and Jim Crow attitudes they were understandably sick of.
I have come to refer to the behavior as "ghetto" (an "equal opportunity" option of self destructive
and threatening to others behavior) and leave the N-word only very specific quotes and references
where meaning of statement would be lost otherwise.
It would be a tough row to hoe to grow up as a black man in America, even today. There will
always be a certain segment of the public that thinks ill of a person based on appearance. What
I cannot get my head around is why so many blacks CHOOSE to live the ghetto culture and
EXPONENTIALLY exacerbate the stereotypes and make their path in life that much more difficult.
It is such a waste of energy and talent.
BTW - I asked a group of Afrikan men working in AFG what the term "nigger" meant to them.
It was a meaningless term, but one did say he knew it was considered "bad" in America. Again,
to that Jim Crow reference ....
Many years ago someone mentioned that we are ambassadors to the car hobby and how we act when we are with our cars reflects on the hobby as a whole. I find it difficult to politely answer questions when I am struggling on the side of the road with a car problem but have marveled how polite car folks have always been to me.
I guess the same applies to this Forum. I'm sure lots of folks come here for information and if we want to encourage interest in the hobby we should be mindful of how we appear to others.
I'm not the most skillful at expressing myself and have learned that others comments sometimes are rough around the edges. I have made some attempts at humor that surely miss there mark.
All we can do is try.
That is why politics and social issues should not be discussed here. There are other places for that.
I have seen threads disappear that started to wander into forbidden territory.
I fact this thread has started to drift from the original subject????
Maybe they should have a section here where those subjects can be discussed.
If I want to get aggravated about political issues I can find plenty of places for that and I do, but I look forward to not getting that stuff here!
A mark of class is being able to correct someone without offending or debasing them.
You don't mention what/which thread(s) but I'll defend my position. A tongue-in-cheek comment doesn't warrant a threat and I'll respond to any threat, verbal or otherwise. All you folks pi--ing and moaning about the lack of available reproduction parts should take note of what happens when there's no market for them.
With that, I bid you adieu.
Donnie, Have you been around many young teen age to twenties, black boys or men. They still use the 'N' word to describe their own race (at least they did when I was teaching school). It's a racial thing; they can use it and not an eyebrow will be raised, but if a white person says it to or about a black person, watch your back.
We just have to accept the fact that a certain percentage of the forum group, as in any part of society in general, are neither polite, nor gentlemen.
Or just chalk it up to "Grumpy Old Men", which by the way, was one of the funniest movies of all time. Especially the out-takes at the end. I laughed so hard in those last two minutes my gut ached!
I'm sure at most times i neither sound like a gentleman nor polite!! Would people rather have the truth or warm and fuzzy BS?? Bud.
One thing to remember about that certain percentage of rude, impolite ungentlemanly guys.
When they wind up in a nursing home or in some family members back room they only get minor attention. What comes around goes around.
What is written and how you read it, can be two different things. Just a fact of life. It is what makes us individuals. If someone intends to come across in a mean way they will do it. A example is politics. If you give your opinion in a way to change someone's way of thinking the only opinion you will change is their opinion of you.
Part of the answer has been stated here before.
They need to require each poster to go by their real name.....A lot of the personal attacks are done by the people that cannot even post by their real name......I know as they have sent nasty comments to us.
Some people fake offense easily.
...And some champion offense excessively.
Oh great. Now I'm offended.
I think I'll fill out a Hurt Feelings Report.
"It's all in the attitude."
I'm sure this isn't the first time that this has happened, but I sure wish it would be put to rest.
First – thanks so much to so many of you that do a great job of making the forum inviting to others.
Second – for those who occasionally (me included) post something that isn’t very helpful for promoting the hobby, I’ve found the following has been useful for me. When I am “in doubt” about if it will be more positive or more negative, I try to wait a day before I go in with “guns blazing” and hit the “post” button. It might not help anyone else, but I have found it is helpful to me. And I still like the advice given in a few short words in “All I Ever Really Needed to Know I Learned In Kindergarten.” If you don’t remember it, please see: https://www.pa-fsa.org/assets/files/all_i_ever_really_needed_to_know.pdf
OT: For anyone who desires to gain a better understanding about the poverty cycle in the USA and how difficult it is for someone to escape from that cycle I would recommend the book “A Framework for Understanding Poverty” by Dr. Ruby K. Payne. It is available from Amazon at: https://books.google.com/books?id=qUkuAAAACAAJ&dq=understanding+poverty+by+ruby+ burgess&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ipHYVNjUD8mpNoP3gfgM&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA . You can also go to: http://www.worldcat.org/title/framework-for-understanding-poverty/oclc/317648024 and you might have to put the title back in – but if you add your zip code it will list the nearest library with a copy. Disclaimer, I have not yet had the time to read it yet, but it is on my “to read list.” When my wife was teaching in a school where the fast majority of the students were from a poverty background, it was recommended to her by the school. She found it helped her not only better understand more of the issues, but also how to better equipped the kids to overcome more of the obstacles.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Im sad to say that this problem comes up every so often over similar posts and will for years to come.
Some people get tired of the same old question being asked every year as all some new people need to do is a search and they will get the answer from older posts, some of us have shorter fuses and just let loose.
Something to consider. This is an internet forum. The words you read on this internet site and for the most part are just black and white words on the internet. There is no chance that the words are going to cause you actual physical pain unless you happen to slap your own face. Getting pissed off over words on an internet site is just like getting pissed off at a football game on TV or your daughters doll collection. Does it really help? There are other real problems in the world that need attention rather some black and white print on a computer screen. Its just a computer screen that we use as a tool, Some tools work and some don't, You just have to choose which tool does the job and over look the others. Rule number 1, There's no such thing as a dumb question, Rule number 2, If you can't find the answer to your question then go to an area that will answer the question. Just my 2 cents.
Kenneth "Bud" DeLong,
"I'm sure at most times I neither sound like a gentleman nor polite!! "
I have never found that to be the case.
You never know how someone else will take anything you or I say.
Recently I was talking to a man who had imigrated from South Africa. He became a U.S. citizen. When he was asked what was his ethnic group he said'"African American". This man is very light skinned Caucasian. The man who had asked him was black and was offended. The truth is that he literately was African American.
As an older man, I am amazed at how the younger generation has changed the meaning of words. Sometimes I say something seriously, and they catch a word I said which has a different slang meaning, one which I had never heard. They start laughing or think I am talking about something entirely different.
Anyway, my point is don't take everything so seriously. And to those who are long time forum members, remember that some things you have seen posted and exhausted, are new to the newcomer. Don't drive him away because you have seen it before.
Your right Norman, The other day a friend of my sons was telling me how many were coming to dinner, She said Ty, Jeff and Sue. So I set up for that many guests. When they all came I asked, Where's Ty? She said who's Ty? In your e mail it said Ty was coming. Apparently Ty means Thank you. I guess I need to go back to school and relearn the english language.
I never understood the guys who tell someone go do a search. Of course there is a polite way and an impolite way to say that, and I do understand that some don't care to write the same thing over and over. But if you aren't in the mood to write out a response, don't respond. Just because you don't feel like writing out a set of instructions doesn't mean you should tell someone they should have done their homework. On another site I frequent, there is a multiple page sticky on why some newbies will do better than others on that particular site. The original poster pretty well laid out that someone should read all of the sticky's (And there are dozens if not hundreds)and so forth before bothering the forum with a question. And there were quite a few regulars on there that agreed wholeheartedly. It was a turn off for me.
The umpteenth time somebody asks a familiar question, presumably it's a new person. It's nice to greet him and post a link to the answer, as Hap and several other people do. As Hal says, if you don't feel like answering, lay off.
Sometime the search just doesn't work. I have tried several times lately and I just get some computer gobbledygook. I kept trying because I didn't want to be told I should do a search. Still no luck. Once more and if no success get ready for another free neutral inquiry!!
I use Google to search the forum, just add "mtfca" to your keywords. For instance, to search for free neutral threads, type the following in Google:
free neutral mtfca
Hap I do something in about the same vain; I type a response read it a couple of times then hit erase.
Mark -- Your exercise of restraint is admirable. I hope it catches on.
Thanks for the tip, Mark. I have to remember that. Also, I too often type and delete. Its like just typing lets some steam off and I can let it go and I know that's for the best.
10% of an argument is actual disagreement... 90% of the argument is tone of voice when discussing the disagreement. When it comes to the Internet, tone of voice is nearly impossible to read unless you actually know the person. So, things said harmlessly turn in to horrible insults because the ability to discern tone and intent is gone. It's really easy to tick someone off on a forum without meaning to do so.
(Message edited by zdillinger on February 11, 2015)
Zachary, the inability to see someone's face on line makes the use of "smileys" more important...
In the all-text CompuServe days, we did the same thing with acronyms. We used <g> for "grin," <bg> for "big grin," (on the Masonry Forum, we used <bfg>, which I'm sure you recognized as "big fraternal grin"), and sometimes <g,d&r> for "grinning, ducking and running." Plain text on a screen can be misinterpreted.