Ahead of the game!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Ahead of the game!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 07:50 pm:

Tonight while watching 60 min i saw a modern car have it's control taken from the driver by a hacker! You guessed it,i think unmolested Model T's are safe!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sean Butler Huntington Beach on Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

Funny Ken - The same thing crossed my mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 06:48 am:

The state of Washington has decided to install a prom in cars to record our mileage and charge us for each mile we drive. Seems in order to do this they need to use the OBD diagnostic plug.

Well to beat them at their own game I will be driving my T's, and other brass cars plus my model a touring. No plug no pay.

We are now getting more toll lanes and bridges. We also have permanent original license plates for cars 30 years and older. These are classed as permanent and only require a 1 time charge and no annual renewal. In our state if a license is not renewed for 18 months it drops out of the system.

So all vintage permanent registrations drop out of the computer system. Therefor if I go thru the automated photo toll system there is no way the state can charge me for the tolls. Kinda' like the old freewheeling so popular on the 40's and 50's cars.

It now pays to drive a T.

justsayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 08:00 am:

Kenneth...interesting how you witnessed this! I posted about this very issue quite a while back on the forum, the impression I got from what few replies there were, was no one really believed either me, or that it could happen. Then last week while I was in the waiting room at the hospital waiting for the start of my 2 hour GTT for my diabetes, it was on the news again. I saw it several months ago. And I'll say it again, God help anyone with that "park assist" feature, because with that, the hackers can ACTUALLY STEER your car for you! Talk about being in a death mode! I think I'll keep my two "modern" vehicles from the mid 1990's. Even they're a bit susceptible, but no park assist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 08:50 am:

I'm hoping for the solar flare that knocks out all the modern car computers.... I could start a taxi service with my fleet!:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 09:07 am:

It was only a matter of time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 10:33 am:

The hacker defense is sure to come up in court before there are any verified hacks.

"Some hacker made my car crash."

Why didn't Toyota use the hacker defense for their runaway cars? Their stupid computer program wouldn't override the accelerator with the brake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 12:59 pm:

I think I mentioned this before --

A study of lead free solder (SAC) by a reputable SMT lab reveled that the Toyota control system has an abundance of tin whiskers that can cause momentary short circuits that could set an acceleration bit in the on-board computer.

Some how the study was lost or ignored by the Feds when they issued their Toyota unintended acceleration report.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 01:17 pm:

Brass Car Guy - Okay,.....guess I'll have to show my ignorance. What's a "prom"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 01:42 pm:

G.R....be careful what you wish for! That same solar flare can also knock out the power grid, not to mention other things. And with this whacked out world, we really need to pray one of these idiots doesn't figure out just how or when to set off one of those magnetic bombs that will render life as we know it virtually useless. Then about the only thing that will (or might) operate would be our Model T's, but with no utilities, what good would they do? I'm not sure one of those wouldn't even harm the coils anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

"PROM" is short for "Programmable Read Only Memory." It's an integrated circuit that can be programmed and re-programmed. It's used in tons of computer-type devices, including engine controls on modern cars.

The factory can program it to a set of parameters, then the computer uses it as a sort of controller - asks it how to deal with a particular set of circumstances, and it tells the rest of the computer what to do.

If it can be programmed and re-programmed by the factory or at a dealership, the assumption is that a hacker can do so as well.

Suppose, for instance (and I'm making this up), the PROM is programmed at the factory to recognize 50 incremental steps as you press the accelerator, and adjust the fuel injectors accordingly. Now, suppose a hacker tells it to assume that anything above level 1 is wide open full-speed, and once there, it stays there.

Disaster!

By the way, ROM, or Read-Only Memory, differs from RAM, which is Random Access Memory, which you have in your computer, in that once ROM is programmed it presumably stays with that program, whereas RAM is continuously in fluid. PROM is sort of in between, in that it is constant, but can be changed if desired. And there's E-PROM, which means Electronically Programmable Read Only Memory.

Confused? Sorry!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 08:59 am:

Its only my thought but maybe the news media should not have told the world how that this is possible. Security is only as secure the information given. There is information I feel that for the best interest of everyone not be advertised to the general public.This is a prime example.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 09:09 am:

So we should all be in the dark about this?? I thought my post was a joke! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 11:28 am:

Kenneth,
In this world, if it can be done then sooner or later it will be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 12:38 pm:

Will: keeping the public in the dark about what is possible with computers will not make the problem go away, I don't even think seriously having the information is going to inspire "new" hackers. In order to be a marginal hacker you have to spend a whole lot of time and energy to learn exactly how computers work. It's just like that credit card you carry in your wallet with the RFID chip it can be read from up to 5 feet away and do things like send you e-mail about the water heater you are looking at or it can be copied to an expired motel card key and have hundreds of dollars in charges run up before you are even aware of what happened! Technology is not always your friend!:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 01:30 pm:

I have decided to step off the grid.. .not entirely, but as much as possible. I decided a few years ago that I don't want to be 75 years old and having $2500 repair bills. So, I bought a 1970 Chevrolet C-10 truck and rebuilt it mechanically from front to back. 25 years from now, it'll still be running fine and I'll be able to work on it...hopefully. And I don't have to worry about privacy issues. To me it's a good plan. Whether or not it pans out or something derails it remains to be seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Beatty _Kansas City on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 03:01 pm:

Ain't technology grand? Now we have devices such as Amazon's Echo and Samsung's smart TV that can record everything you say in your house and send it out over the internet.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/09/technology/security/samsung-smart-tv-privacy/

And police can use radar to see inside your house without a warrant.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/19/police-radar-see-through-walls/220 07615/

I wonder how much longer it will be before before the government says I have to have a chip placed inside me like they did for dogs?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison North of Iowa on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 03:20 pm:

Brian, what makes you think the government hasn't already placed a chip inside you? Or into your newborn children or grandchildren? Even all you conscientious pet owners are putting readable chips in your dog. How difficult would it be to put chip readers into the door frames of public buildings? The computer your using can take videos of you and send them all around the world without your knowledge. Your iPhone, vehicle, credit cards, drivers license and several other items you take with you when you leave your house can be used to pinpoint your location and record your activities. And everyone of these devices were meant to make your life easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 03:27 pm:

Nobody's going to beam any spurious thoughts into this guy's head (no, that's not me, just a pic I found on the web). :-O

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:01 pm:

Cat remains unconvinced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 11:37 pm:

Ricks LOVED the photo!!!
Wanna know how I feel about Eproms and electronics (today)... Do NOT Drive or own a PT Cruiser!!!! Especially a 2001 -2005 model! I had the Controller reprogrammed and still had the invisible varmint present. I took the ECM out and had it exchanged with another one from another car reprogrammed and still had the same problems! So I figure it is NOT in the ECM. Right?
The horn honks when it wants to. Driving down the road in a turn or in stopping. Beep-beep-beep! Everyone else is looking at us in the car. I told my wife just wave at them and don't worry. They can't figure out who in the heck we are!!! Our door locks lock when ever they want to. Not at the req'd 100 feet of travel. They unlock while driving also. Took the car to Chrysler $200.00 later they could not tell me what the problem was and wanted me to bring it back. I told them that I would not pay more money. I and the car sat for a half day the second time! They told me when I really started heating up that I would have to pay the shop fee of $84.00 per hour or they would NOT look at it! Got on line, joined a couple of forums for the PT. Found the SAME problem prevalent with several other owners!!! None of them found the problem. Chrysler HAS to KNOW about this problem!!! No RECALLS!!! So ask me how I like the NEW electronics (inside computers)? That was why the one from another car that was flashed still did the SAME thing!!! It is in the ECM!!!!!! But who will help you? We will NOT buy another Chrysler product because of this VARY thing!!! I told that to the Forums. Still no help.
Joe in Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Saturday, February 14, 2015 - 09:40 am:

Joseph G, I think it's time for you to invoke your rights of the "Lemon Law"...I certainly would. Sounds like you have a very dangerous car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lyle Nelson on Saturday, February 14, 2015 - 05:48 pm:

Joseph G
Your tale of woe is eerily similar to what my wifes Buick did to her. It all started with the trunk opening by itself (with no-one around) and progressed to door locks, interior lights, and other stuff, just as though it was possesed by the Devil. I took it to a friends garage, he checked the computers, all OK. Now what?? Well, he had a friend who would check the GROUND connections from the (body) computer for $400. It seems this had occured in his experience. I went to the library and got the Mitchell manual, copied the pages, and started checking. Grounds are everywhere! Some very difficult to find. After a couple days crawling in the trunk and under the seats and under the dash; Voila! Back to normal.


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