Question: Warford TT cast iron PTO

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Question: Warford TT cast iron PTO
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 02:45 pm:

Ok I have a couple of pics here of a TT Warford with bracket and front stub. I have a PTO that looks like it will bolt up. Does anyone have a picture of the correct PTO? The casting marks on the PTO if positioned so the shaft is facing to the rear the marks are upside down. Would not impede the functionality of the unit. It just makes me thing the PTO is off something else. I can take a pic of the trans with the cover off if requested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 11:55 pm:

i've installed many pto's, there are a ton of choices. many brands were made, so no one is correct, it depends on what you want to run with it, and what %ratio you want. they make spacers to shim out the unit for different rpm output(ratio). just bolt em up and check the tooth fit, and in the end it should have a nice smooth "feel" when turning. bumpy-too tight, lots of back lash-too loose. when done, it will whine if you goofed!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:18 am:

Jerome,

I have found that there is not much interest in the PTO installation incorporating the Warford cast iron 6 speed on the model T or TT. I have never seen an active installation where the PTO is actually driving something on a T. I issued a previous thread in an attempt to get information and received few results. This thread does show the original Warford PTO that was available at the time.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/481616.html

I notice you have rather complete Warford including the rear support with the U-bolts and clamp plates. The complete support is a rare item:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/144846.html#POST246199

But, to answer your question about the applicability of the PTO unit you have I have a few comments. It looks like the unit will be workable as the flange is standard SAE and the gear appears to be a 6 pitch (DP). The Warford gears are 6DP 20 degree pressure angle stub tooth. Whether your PTO gear has the same tooth profile needs some investigation. It will be necessary to turn the PTO box over so that the output shaft is pointing rearward or reverse the position of the PTO gear on the shaft. I say this because the PTO gear has a hub extension that will prevent the gear from engaging properly/completely with the Warford cluster gear. What Clayton says about gear mesh alignment is correct and your PTO unit may need shimming to obtain the proper mesh. Shims are available in various thicknesses for this purpose.

Here is the PTO project I am currently working on….adapting a unit to a Warford :
PTO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 08:56 am:

I think I was right....nobody is interested in Warford PTOs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike kolsrud on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 09:11 am:

I like it it would be fun to put a hydraulic dump on a TT truck .
i Know were there is a dump box for a TT all i need is the pto .
anyone have a pto for sale ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 09:22 am:

i think you were right too! all good info. i will add another bit about rpm. we dont know what he is wanting to power with this, but somthing like a hydraulic pump, as much rpm as you can get, so smaller drive gear, closer to the main box. a mechanical device like a winch or a corn sheller you would want less rpm, so bigger gear with the pto shimmed out away from the main box. usually a mechanical device will have chains and sprockets for another place to adjust rpm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 09:35 am:

Somehow I don't think hydraulic pumps were of the proper vintage....need belts, chains, shafts.
Mike..lots of luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 09:52 am:

true, hydraulics are not era correct, but some guys are using the T's for light chores around the farm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike kolsrud on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 02:02 pm:

I know its not vintage !
I just like a good challenge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Paul on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 02:58 pm:

From RitchieWiki

Hydraulic Dump Bodies
Hydraulics were being incorporated into truck mounted dump bodies relatively early on. Records show that one of the first hydraulic dump bodies was the Robertson Steam Wagon with a hydraulic hoist that received power from the truck’s engine or an independent steam engine. Alley & McLellan of Glasgow developed another early hydraulic dump body in 1907 that was power-driven by steam.[3]

So apparently, a hydraulic dump WOULD be period correct. Just not very common.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike kolsrud on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 03:14 pm:

thank you for the information


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 03:22 pm:

If you want to drive a hydraulic pump then just run it off the engine...don't need a Warford PTO.
RitchieWiki...please say where you are from.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Paul on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 06:59 am:

RitchieWiki is a web site.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 10:01 am:

OK David Paul,where are you located?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Paul on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 10:15 am:

I'm located in Michigan. I have a TT dump truck (gravity operated).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Crenshaw Richmond Va. on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 05:48 pm:

I have read that the hydraulic dump hoist was invented by Gar Wood in 1912. I believe his first
company was the ST. Paul Body Company followed in time by the Gar Wood Body Co. These bodies would have been driven by a PTO.
I owned a truck equipment company and was always interested in the history of the trade and it's major players.
Lee


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike kolsrud on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 07:46 am:

I love the information on this.


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