Mileage fee

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Mileage fee
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:07 pm:

Now that cars are getting better gas mileage and electric cars are on the roads, the government is mulling a tax per mile driven. I can understand how that works with existing toll roads, but the local streets and many highways are not toll roads. The modern cars have digital speedometers, some are even tracked to see if a car is speeding. How will we pay the fee when our cars don't have speedometers? Even with the old mechanical speedometers, it would be possible to disconnect them for a period of time and then re-connect them to use a lower mileage than the actual miles driven. This proposed fee doesn't seem fair to me, and what will the government do about us? Will they outlaw us because we don't have odometers?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Conte on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:27 pm:

They will install a GPS tracking device on all vehicles without a computer or speedometer.

They can track you with E Zpass, it's already being done.

Or we can have a good old fashion rally and tell them to go to Hell and stop acting like sheep!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:46 pm:

A couple of thoughts:

1. Isn't a fuel tax already a sort of mileage tax? In fact, a little better in that it imposes less burden on those who drive little and/or have more fuel efficient cars. If we go to a distance traveled system, then all fuel taxes should be deleted.

2. Since our streets and highways are constructed with tax dollars, federal, state, and local (at least they are here in California), the whole notion toll roads and toll lanes runs counter to the notion of a tax and benefit process. We pay taxes proportionate to our situation. The use of monies thus produced is intended to benefit us all on equal footing. Toll roads and toll lanes give privilege to those with money at the expense of everyone else on roads everyone helped pay for. What's next, pay an extra fee and the police or fire crew will take your emergency first, moving others to the end of the line?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:46 pm:

Several years ago the TxDOT was doing a traffic study of many of the highways around San Antonio. They issued small transmitters, on a voluntary basis, that were read by receivers all over the city--Usually on overhead road signs. It's a lot easier to do with today's technology by simply reading a license plate. That's how many of the tolls in Texas are billed. The same could be done on most major thoroughfares to track where you go and tally the mileage. And it wouldn't require a GPS or speedometer for every car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Conte on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 04:58 pm:

That is what E Zpass does. There are readers mounted to traffic signs and light poles along the road.

Soon most car chases will be a thing of the past cops will be able to disable your car remotely, another Star Trek idea coming true.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 06:25 pm:

Our roads suck in California because our fuel tax revenues have been constantly raided for other things than road maintenance. Not always good things, in fact rarely so. Now, with average fuel mileage rising, the geniuses in Sacramento are in a panic for funds for their hyper liberal agenda. Of course, the solution is never efficiency or other intelligent governing, it is always to find new ways to extract money from those who earn it. Hence, the mileage fee. "Fees" are the new taxes.
I am also about to lose money because I have a well and a septic system, so I don't pay local municipalities for water and sewer. This drives them up the wall, and is grossly unfair to those who did not have pay to dig a well and install and maintain a septic system. So, plans are in place for more "fees". So, soon enough we will all have GPS tracking devices on our model T's and flush counters on our toilets. I can't wait.
Sorry for the OT rant.
Fordially, Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 06:32 pm:

I hate toll roads!!!!!Toll roads to me mean the people who live in that state are too cheap to pay for their roads!!! Ever wait in traffic at Chicago where I-80 drops to two lanes to get through the last toll booth??I think toll roads are the same speed as citys with their income tax,those who live there are to cheap to pay their way so they want you to do it!!!!! Sorry about the rant but i keep telling everyone i aint all warm and fuzzy!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 06:34 pm:

I hate toll roads!!!!!Toll roads to me mean the people who live in that state are too cheap to pay for their roads!!! Ever wait in traffic at Chicago where I-80 drops to two lanes to get through the last toll booth??I think toll roads are the same speed as citys with their income tax,those who live there are to cheap to pay their way so they want you to do it!!!!! Sorry about the rant but i keep telling everyone i aint all warm and fuzzy!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 07:36 pm:

Unless I am mistaken (which I am not) we already pay road tax attached to each gallon of gas.

Also local governments issue bonds paid by the people for road improvements.

Also special benefit districts to pay for roads and sewers in new developments.

And lets not forget that never ending local 1/2 cent sale tax we vote yea or nay every two years to continue to replace brides and roads.

The issue here is two fold, we have a government regardless of what party that has an addiction to money. And like any addiction, it takes more and more drug to get the same high. We also have a government that can't stop shifting moneys around to other causes always leaving a need for MORE, MORE, MORE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 07:39 pm:

Oh, and lets not forget how trucks whether a
1 ton or semi has to pay a special road wear tax based on their weight and how much more they tare up the roads. BS!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 08:04 pm:

I am really glad that I do not live in America, your government is going overboard with these sort of ideas, maybe you should move to a better country like here in Australia. You can even bring your "T" with you and drive it here LHD
I am told that you even get fingerprinted just to go into Disney land now, surly this is not true. Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 08:09 pm:

I do try to avoid pushing these threads in political directions. I rant often. But this is the biggest soap box I have.

I already DO have to pay an extra "fee" for my fire service because the state has screwed up so badly managing budgets the fire service nearly shut down a few times. The idiot voters of this county voted it in through the initiative process. Of course, this means the state will reduce their state supplied budget because the fire district now has other means of support. The cycle continues.

Of course, many good people have warned us of this for hundreds of years. President Washington told us to be careful not to allow the banking industry to become the "new royalty". Oops.
All the way up to president Eisenhower's "Beware the military industrial complex", we have been warned. Unfortunately, the majority of population willingly sleeps in wanton ignorance.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But Abraham Lincoln's "government of the people, by the people, and FOR the people" has perished.
We now have government of the masses, by the chosen, for the select few. Period.

We need a new Washington, Addams, Jefferson, and Franklin, to lead us back to a government built upon a foundation of integrity and honesty. Otherwise the entire thing could collapse under the weight of corruption.

Sorry. I'll shut up now.
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 08:24 pm:

It sad the extent our Political crooks go to trying to bleed every cent out of us who live in Califunny. This latest tax gimmick that is being sought in Califunny should cause the snow to melt under the feet of those shoveling snowed in Boston. We may have great weather...but, its not easy living in the land of fruit and nuts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 08:53 pm:

I'm at the point of thinking we can't fix the problems. For example, if you read the arguments published in favor of toll lanes on our "free"ways that we already paid for, you'll see one of the most prominent is that they "reduce traffic congestion".

Give me a break. What happens is the toll lane moves fast because only those who can afford it and those equipped with the electronic gizmo that debits your account can use it. This increases traffic congestion for the rest of us by forcing cars that would otherwise use the lane into the remaining lanes. Yet we don't seem to be able to change things through legitimate community action or at the polls.

We, as a society, don't seem interested in paying enough attention to what's being said to separate truth from BS. Consequently, the BS stands as truth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Beatty _Kansas City on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 09:00 pm:

Careful guys! All these negative conversations about our wonderful bureaucrats could wind up getting us all on the No Fly List or something! CUZ YA KNOW THE NSA IS READING ALL THIS, DON'T YA? ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 09:31 pm:

Here in KS we have only a couple Toll roads. These roads are self supporting through user fees for maintaince and improvements. If one does not want to travel the toll road, there are state and local highways going the same places just not as fast.

Our toll road in the last couple years added a third lane in places. Three lanes more safe or not we still have those who refuse to not drive in the passing lane putting those in the center and slow lanes in danger of side collisions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 09:33 pm:

About 50 years ago, Illinois released a study that showed a truck rig at legal gross did as much damage to the road as about 8,000 cars.

I have never heard of such a study since, but the right lane of I-5 through the San Joaquin Valley is so rough you can hardly drive on it. Big trucks and trailers are restricted to the right lane in Calif.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - 11:56 pm:

Ralph,
The right lane of I-5 is so rough that the car seats bounce loose in my enclosed trailer. Even Torque-flex axles don't help. The CHP will nail you with a big ticket if you drive in the left lane except for passing. It does not matter to them if your not holding up traffic.

Parts of I-15 which was not very old near Fallbrook quickly became badly broken up. Turns out the contractor did a poor job. The sections that were replaced are holding up much better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 12:23 am:

Here in Missouri our constitution does not allow toll roads. MoDot tried to get a vote to change this so that I70 can be made a toll road. That idea was defeated big time. Then MoDot tried to get a sales tax passed for road construction. Believe it or not, a sales tax! That was also defeated big. Now our illustrious governor is looking into a way to go around the Mo. constitution to still turn I70 into a toll road.
Government today seems to me to be a few people that think they are better and have better ideas than the people they are supposed to serve.

My rant
Steven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - 12:47 am:

Tax based on milage is not just an effort to garner more money for road taxes, the "progressives" want everyone to live in clustered housing and not spread out on rural property or 1-2 acre parcels just outside of town. By taxing/controling the amount we drive they can show us the error of not conforming to their ideas of how and where we should live.
Furthermore it is a myth that the revenue collected by gas tax is dropping, after all the new drivers in the United States every year exceeds the number of people that stops driving. If you think less people are driving now than 10 years ago, just look a the congestion on roads now compared to then.. Where I live the quiet backroads are becoming dangerous due to all the uneducated drivers on the roads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 10:53 am:

I'll try to steer the thread back onto the original topic. I doubt it will work, but it's worth a shot.

Norm, do you have any links to articles relating to the miles driven tax? I'd like to read more about this, and I'm sure other forum members would love to as well. Education is better than spreading rumors, and if you don't have a reputable source for your information a rumor is all it is.

Not criticizing, just looking for more information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erick Keenan on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 12:07 pm:

They could just make it an average use per year like 18,000 miles per vehicle. For example 2 daily drives and 5 T's, 71 Bronco, a car trailer, a 55 chevy each at 18,000 miles a year and maybe .02 cents a mile? Wow $3,600.00 USD.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 01:03 pm:

It was said earlier -- We already pay a mileage tax when we purchase gasoline.

People with gas hogs pay more per mile than those that have fuel squeezers but the politicians figured that they could get more money out of us if they put an additional tax on inefficient vehicles.

The gas tax supposed to be used for building and maintaining roads but the progressives want more control of our lives and more of our money to give to their pet projects and non-workers.

Norm - If it is instituted they will find a way to determine your miles and have you pay the tax.
If they can't determine your actual mileage they will develop an estimated mileage so you can be sure to pay your "fair share"
But it will only apply to non-government people because the rules don't apply to them.
But you can be sure that you will pay and pay and pay and pay!

Bill is correctly referring to Agenda 21.
It is aimed at having a select few control everything we do, from how much energy we are allowed to use, to how many square feet we can live in, etc.
The freedoms we have lost are nothing compared to what Agenda 21 is trying to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 01:25 pm:

-Hey, Guys-
Just 'Google' the name of "Alexander Tyler" (1787) and note what has been said before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 02:38 pm:

Ah, the dear old internet. Ain't it grand? Tells you whatever you want to believe.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp

Fred, our legislature is cutting education and raiding the highway fund to pay for the governor's "experiment". Not a progressive in sight. Shenanigans like that are non-denominational, equal opportunism, and bipartisan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 02:41 pm:

Well folks, here is the way I see it. It takes big money to get elected. The big money folks don't make donations, they make investments. When you make an investment you expect a positive return. So effectively the big money folks select the candidates, both the Democrats and the Republicans, and we the electorate get to select from the slate that has been picked out for us.

I don't like it. I don't see how to fix it. And I don't see a better country to live in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 02:53 pm:

-Hi, Steve-
"Figures don't lie, but liars figure." If we look at Snopes, then look at the organization's (or any other's) political contribution history, and it's usually easy to see which direction they lean. Personally, I view all those opinions with a very jaundiced eye, and would rather rely on plain old logic and 'common sense'... 'History' will always repeat itself if we won't learn the lesson presented, whether it is our cars or our life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 03:35 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 03:42 pm:

Our problem is very fundamental. We listen to our media promote politicians who are continuously telling us the vale of our democracy and what they're going to do to preserve it. This is just a smoke screen that implies since we live in a democracy we all share in the decisions and policies. It camouflages and shields from responsibility those who are actually calling the shots.

Consider our "democratic" federal government. Voters have no say whatever in the judicial branch. Voters have only indirect input in the executive branch, the President and Vice President being actually being elected by the electoral college. Each voter gets to vote for only a maximum of 3 out of 535 total members of the legislative branch. Probably most important, voters have no say so whatever in who manages the huge bureaucratic system created by our "leadership" nor the rules and regulations they impose on us.

It's not a democracy. It's a republic. It's time to call it a republic and hold officials, both elected and appointed, accountable for how they represent us. A republic is perfectly OK with me, but we must acknowledge that's what we have and learn to control it as such. As long as we continue to gobble up this "democracy" nonsense we stand no chance of an accountable, transparent, and effective system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 04:16 pm:

Check the dictionary. A republic is one form of democracy.

The Constitutional Convention, 1787: In a...perhaps...apocryphal tale, Franklin left the building and was confronted by a lady who asked, “Well Doctor, do we have a monarchy or a republic?” The witty sage of Philadelphia replied, “A republic, madam, if you can keep it.”


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 04:43 pm:

You're correct Steve. We have a democratically operated republic.

My point was that modern rhetorical use of the word "democracy" suggests a direct democracy where the electorate participates in every decision and is therefore directly responsible for every decision. We don't have that form of government. However, the word "democracy" is thrown in our collective faces daily for the purpose of, in my opinion, being used as a smoke screen by those in power. In its current rhetorical use it implies we are all responsible for decisions made by the few in power as a deliberate effort to prevent accountability.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 09:08 pm:

After the Koch brothers buy the next President in 2016, they will have total control, and they will work to wreck SS, Medicare, and all the other things that don't suit their oligarchy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 09:47 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Thursday, February 12, 2015 - 10:50 pm:

Oh Rick, give it a rest ... Kock Brother Industries? I'm sure it is a safe bet that your side has mega donors also. Like maybe all organized Unions? If you believe otherwise, you know little about politics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 01:07 am:

Koch Bros. just committed over $900 Million to win the Presidency in 2016. Romney wasn't invited to their little party in Palm Springs, which is speculated why he dropped out. Jeb wasn't there, either. Rand Paul was.

Wanna' have tax free income? Be GE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 02:21 am:

The nice thing about obscenely rich folks spending secret billions on candidates is that so often it's wasted on a loser. Their robo-calls to my answering machine get erased without a listen. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 07:21 am:

personally I'm overjoyed rummy and jeb was not invited. I'm tired of the same "OLD" and family running like this is a kingship. Paul???? not much for him either but that's just my opinion.
As for the money from the Koch bros, I thought both sides of DC is in charge of creating laws regarding election funding. You don't like it, I don't like it, that political positions are bought and sold all the time. History shows this. We could call our congressperson but no doubt they are out to lunch with a lobbyist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Friday, February 13, 2015 - 08:15 am:

Norman,

To address your original post ...

I don't think Model T owners put enough miles on their vehicle for it to be of concern ...


Freighter Jim


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration