VIN and Serial Numbers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: VIN and Serial Numbers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger on Monday, February 16, 2015 - 07:08 pm:

Does a 1915 Roadster have numbers any place except on the engine? I see a lot of talk around about other numbers. I was under the impression that the engine number was the VIN number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, February 16, 2015 - 07:16 pm:

The engine number is it for '15.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Monday, February 16, 2015 - 07:23 pm:

There is usually a body number and body date, but these are rarely used for registration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger on Monday, February 16, 2015 - 08:49 pm:

Thanks guys for the answers. One more question where are the body number and the body date found.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 06:52 am:

When was your '15 produced? By may Ford dropped the car number that had been stamped in the patent plate on the firewall up until them.
The body number was stamped by the body manufacturer of which there were a few. Check in the wood under the seat (often cars that old have been rewooded, thus no markings left)

Ford only used the engine # for registration. The other numbers may have been filed by Ford, but a fire in the archives around 1970 destroyed most of Fords records - only the engine production dates are left - and some ledgers with sold cars to individual dealers are kept at the Benson Ford research center up until very early 1915, though 1915 open car production didn't start until february, so '15 runabouts are not likely be found there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 08:19 am:

Richard,

For a good explanation of where to look for body numbers on the 1906-1923 open cars and it specifically addresses many 1915 questions please see the posting “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html Please let us (me) know the information you find out on your car (wood seat frame or metal; which letter if any on the front or back heel panel; riveted or no rivets on the cowl above the coil box etc.). You can post the information or click on my name and it brings up my profile. My e-mail is the third line down. When e-mailing please put Model T or something in the title -- it will be read much sooner. I am still slowly working to update that information.

Caution -- one other number that occasionally may appear on a Title is the casting date. That is one of the reasons Ford went to placing the casting date in a circle rather than in a straight line in the earlier days. The circle ones are really difficult to say they are an engine number. The casting date should not have been used on a title as there were numerous cars with the same engine casting date. But I have seen a few titles where they did use that number.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 09:49 am:

Rger,
MY T according to the engine number 656159 was built in January of 1915. Range of serial numbers for that year and month are 656064-680348. It would indicate that it was the 95th car built in Jan. 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 10:02 am:

Maybe it was built with the 1914 style body but with electric headlamps then? I've read about production problems with the new style cowl delaying production of the 1915 open cars and in the encyclopedia it says: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm

"JAN 12 Factory Letter

Gas lamp tube no longer supplied on radiators as all cars now have electric lights. A tube, P/N T-4052X, was supplied for use on the earlier cars when the radiator was replaced.

FEB 10 Acc. 509, Letter, Ford Archives
New type (1915 style) Runabouts and Tourings now being shipped from the Highland Park plant."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 10:15 am:

656159 is listed on Monday, January 4, 1915. That date applies if it was assembled at the main plant. If it was made at one of the branch assembly plants, it could have been within a few days or a few weeks of that date.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 11:51 am:

The body number on my 1914 Touring is under the front seat in the format
F 8 14 38xxx
Just for general info, if anyone needs the actual numbers, drop me an email


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 11:59 am:

Richard -- If that engine number is original to your car, you have a very early '15 Runabout. Even if it's not the car's original engine, it's a very early '15 engine. The consensus is that '15 open car (Runabout and Touring Car) production didn't get into full swing until February. Model year '15 Sedans and Coupelets were produced during Dec. of '14 and Jan. & Feb. of '15 only, except for a few prototypes made earlier in '14.

Does your car have any '14 features, such as carbide headlights. 4-rivet mounting brackets on the front fenders, or a '13-14 style of rear end? One might expect to find E&J #6 cowl lamps rather than the usual #8's, and an E&J #7 tail lamp rather than the usual #9. The #'s 8 & 9 were marked as such on their tops; the #'s 6 & 7 were not. Please fill us in on your car's details.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 - 03:11 pm:

Richard,

There are only two dates on the engine assembly unit. The casting date and the transmission stub shaft.

The body dates are month-year and very well could be "ordered for use" dates and that is just my opinion. Why would a body manufacturer put the same date on bodies for a whole month? Just a thought.

The bodies were shipped to Ford "in the white, upholstered and painted" before use so it would be difficult, it would seem, to have a "November" built body with a "November" cast engine and a "November" engine log number.

The only complete date, month-day-year, actually stamped on an engine component is on the transmission stub shaft (see Bruce's Book). The transmissions were assembled prior to installation into a complete engine.


Stub Shaft on Engine # 312,4XX

My #312,4XX is on the books as built July 17, 1913. Six days after the transmission was assembled.

You can confirm a very early 1915 engine assembly date with that stub shaft. I would be interested in that number if you have the engine apart one day.

Ken in Texas


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