Gee.... people this forum is not made to bash part suppliers or parts companies. This site admin. should cancel all posts made that is bashing related. There is no reason for the this action.
I agree. There are lots of parts vendors and everyone is free to chose who they want to support, but there is no reason to bash any supplier or parts company.
Judging by the amount of posts that have had trouble with Mac's and good luck with others I'd say this is a much needed heads up to save us who haven't dealt with them both time and money and I'd like to thank them for coming forward with their experiences.
Right Howard - Learning the hard way can only go so far...
Although there is some merit in what RJ & Ron say, it could also be that this Forum serves as the Angie's List of Model T vendors, and thus provides the hobby with a much needed service.
I didn't consider it bashing but a buyer beware type of post.
I don't think that it is bashing if what is reported is the TRUTH, it's more of "Buyer Beware".
When I seek guidance regarding a supplier of parts or services, whether Model T or for anything else, I ask the question in parts:
Who should I call and why?
Who should I NOT call and why?
I can then make an informed decision.
RJ- bashing is now the "new normal". Forums are an early form of "social media" and for some folks in social media all manners are forgotten and anything goes.
Today, all vendors, not just Model T vendors, must keep their noses clean or the whole world will find out about mis-dealings and poor service.
The world is changing. Or, I should say- the world has changed and there are few "manners" left anymore.
In the long run- poor service comes back and bites in the butt. Good service rewards. But in some cases 1 bad report get introduced to social media and off it goes. A few folks like to rant and raise heck just because they can, while others zip-it and move on with life.
Life is full of choices.
Well said John. It all comes down to percentages. Look at the online ratings hotels get for example. Some complaints will come from whiners and it's even possible there could be a false rant from a nearby competitor but, when there are an overwhelming number of complaints or compliments, it probably speaks the truth. I have dealt with Mac's many times and have never had a problem but, due to the vast number of complaints here, there obviously is a problem. We should not hide from the truth just to be polite or quality of service will surely suffer.
"I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."
I don't consider it "bashing" to report unsatisfactory true experiences. In the recent discussion of Mac's and other parts dealers there were the usual high praises for Lang's, and at least one negative report. There were also the usual bad experiences with Mac's, and at least one positive. This shows me that the best are not perfect and that the worst are not consistently bad, but it indicates that your odds of getting satisfaction are better in some places than in others. There are always new folks, and I consider it a service to them when we make them aware of the parts dealers we consider best. In my comments on dealers I always like to mention several of them I've dealt with successfully. Everybody, including parts dealers, has a bad day. When bad practices become a habit or a policy, it's not bashing to let folks know that better choices are available, and to give valid empirical reasons why they're better.
On average, as a consumer, if a person has a good experience with a company or product they tell 3 people. That same person usually tells 10 people if they have a bad experience with a company or product. Just human nature to talk about the bad more than the good.
I don't think it's bashing at all to say that the vast majority of evidence (virtually everyone's experience with Mac's who care enough to comment on it) indicates that they are not the preferred provider of Model T parts. The best (and maybe only) thing they have going for them is they have some really great exploded diagrams on their website.
What Steve said......
WOW,in this economy I cant believe anyone would complain about folks trying to give a heads up on bad service and parts from suppliers! Sheesh.
I assume the complainers prefer to learn from the loss of their own hard earned dollars instead of learning from others.
I have heard it said there is a sucker born every minute. You all go ahead and learn the hard way, the rest of us are going to help prevent each other from getting shafted.
Seth you must have a "HARD ON" for MAC"S no one on this particular thread is talking about a certain vendor
It could be a problem for the club if one of their paying advertisers feels unfairly attacked on the club forum.
Hahahaha Robert, really? I mentioned Mac's because they were the specific vendor mentioned in the other thread that resulted in this one.
Also, consider reading the whole thread: Howard mentions Mac's in this thread, Dave mentions Mac's in this thread, Steve mentions Mac's in this thread (in the post right before mine no less).
I don't have a "hard on" as you put it for Mac's. But to say no one is talking about a particular vendor seems odd.
Seth - There was a thread of Feb 16 entitled "Mac's Antique Auto Parts..." that apparently you did not see.
Oops! I meant that for Robert Steiner,....not Seth, who obviously types faster than I do,....sorry,......harold
Harold, Robert commented in that very thread already.
According to him in that thread he stated
"I always had good luck with Mac's.. Speedy service..great prices and super fast shipping.You just got to know how to handle them to get the best service available"
Robert, how about share with us the trick for getting Mac's to provide the speedy service and fast shipping? I'm sure plenty of folks would be glad to buy from them if speedy service and fast shipping were part of the buying experience.
Did you every try to get on "Angie's List"? Or for that matter, the "Better Business Bureau"? You pay your dues / subscription and your are on. Those are a scam most of the time.... It has nothing or very little to your performance as a business, and a lot more on your ability to pay for the listing or service.....
Its easy, when you call you place your order and ask if the item is in stock ready to ship.. far as shipping I give them my UPS # and it shipped ASAP with no handling fees. As far as the other T vendors.. they have their issue's with inventory, delivery service /price and quality so don't BS us.
I was on the AACA Forums . in their forum members can give a positive feedback for their experience who deal with the parts companies. The negative feedback (bashing) is not allowed and is removed from the forum.
I find it ironic that there would be objections to folks sharing their displeasure with a product or vendor which they had experience with when just 3 months ago few took issue when a troll with absolutely no experience using a product what so ever could obsessively spew blatant about it.
It took a considerable effort from several individuals to expose the caustic impact Troll behavior has on forum participation to put an end to it. Anyone notice how civil the forum has been for the past 3 months since the crackdown on divisive Troll behavior has been enforced?
Give it a rest Kossor.
Well said, Mike.
How much does MTFCA profit from Mac's ads that their loss would be noticed?
If there are any problems with a T parts vendor that I had dealings with ( which is just about all of them ) I call them and tell them of the issues personally.
The vendors do buy reproduction parts and rebuilt parts from people who make a little money using them to help move their parts. I don't know how much they make and don't want to know.
Some of those folks participate on the forum and I am glad that the vendors do sell some of their products and its my choice to buy from who I want to.
Well said Jerry.
Well said Mike Kossor & RD Ricks !!
Let MAC's defend their own store. What has Ecklers said to defend their compnay??????? Are you as concerned as they are? They seem to be very concerned NOT
I think we are very fortunate to have a variety of suppliers for our hobby. I have used all the major suppliers at one time or another and have had no problem with any of them. It does seem to me that it is counter-productive to drive any of our suppliers out of business. I have noticed that several of our long-time suppliers have arrived at retirement age and beyond and are closing or selling their business. It may be much more difficult to secure the parts that we need in the not too distant future. I want to express my appreciation to all the suppliers for their interest and investment in our hobby. Happy T'ing!
Not to light a political bonfire here but, I was under the impression that this is still the United States of America and the Constitution (the document, not the ship) was still being recognized. This includes the 1st Amendment.
As long as no one is outright lying, and therefore slandering a person or business, I don't see a problem.
As my Dad used to say "20,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong". In other words, if everyone is saying that a certain business gave them less than acceptable service, you can pretty much bet the farm that they will treat you the same.
Everyone makes mistakes, but when you have a string of complaints about a business and only one or two satisfied customers, I'd say vote with your feet and that may just jar their Customer Service Dept. If they even have one.
For a forum such as this to have a thread deleted simply because it has negative but valid input from customers of a business that supplies the hobby related to that particular forum, well that is called censorship. And that, my friend, is a very slippery slope.
That's my two-bits anyway.
R J is half right, it does no good to complain to the vendors, as they do not listen or respond.
The part manufacturers prefer to stay hidden and unknown.
A few do such good work that the are well known.
Two that I do know are John Reagan and R V Anderson.
Many of the manufacturers do not bother to check the original blueprints for the parts they make and in many cases there is only one manufacturer for a specific part.
As SGT Friday used to say, "just the facts sir!"
I'd rather know. Although I found out the hard way years ago.
Ha.Ha. Ha. Maybe they should have a profile sheet like they use on e-bay
Bashing is spreading negative or derogatory comments that are based on a personal opinion, not facts. Bashing may not be productive, but sharing of true negative experiences absolutely is. If I just said "Vendor M sucks" that's bashing. If I had poor customer service that involved a crappy part that a vendor sold and I shared it that's not bashing, it's a reputation that is earned by the choices of the vendor.
I know I've bought from all the vendors over the years, including Macs. I've changed who I go to first based on the response of the good ones and lack of response or support of others. Not all of the vendors are the same or sell parts made by the same people. I personally want to hear the good and the bad of everyone's experiences so I can benefit from them.
There are some vendors that stand behind their products and value customer satisfaction. Based on my personal experience Mac's does not fit in that category. I would prefer to let others know where I got burned and where I was valued. The vendors earn their reputation, both good and bad when they make choices on how they serve their customers.
To suggest the moderator removes a post that shares a negative experience does a disservice to the other members.
I have ordered twice from Mac's. Parts came quick both times. Once there was a manufactures defect, he replaced the complete parts, free and quickly.
I e-mailed Lang's, to get no response. I bought the parts else where.
I bought from Howell's. Part came when they said, and was cheaper then anyone else.
I needed another part, I e-mailed Lang's again. Again no response, I am buying it else where.
I need 45 clinch nuts, 64 rivets, 25 oval head & 10 flathead screws. Lang's has only the rivets, Snyder's has only the nuts. Mac's has them all. I'll be ordering again from Mac's.
Not all on here have had bad service from Mac's & Howell's. But I have had no service from Lang's twice.
I've bought a lot Model T and A parts from Mac's over the years and never had a problem. I also have bought non-Model T/A parts from Ecklers and have been satisfied. Seems like a lot of the bashing going on here is from people that have a friend who has a friend who has a sister who's husband bought from Mac's and was disappointed. Or they have just jumped on the Forum Bandwagon because they like to agree with everyone else.
Ron, who are these people that you speak of? From what i have read, these are personal, first hand experiences of real people here on this forum. Just because you don't happen to agree with them doesn't give you the right to just make things up, does it?
The bashing of Mac's is just as nauseating as the incessant fandom of Lang's on this forum.
You know the forum has been very nice lately. It would be nice if it stayed that way.
Dan B, Why don't you post your experiences like the majority of us did? As I have posted that I bought parts from Mac's 2 times. Both resulted in bad, rotten service. I have no idea how many times I have bought stuff from Lang's over the years but it has been in multiple double digits and the only problem I had with them is that they sent parts via UPS. UPS was the problem and Lang's made it right. I would bet that they lost money on that order. If you have a problem with any vendor post it. Don Lang reads this forum. I very much doubt that Mac's does or cares. Just my .02.
Ron,My thoughts on Mac's is based on personal experience when I first started the T hobby in about 1993.
Slowly delivered,overpriced junk.
I now order from Snyder's or Smith and Jones. S and J usually has the parts here the next day after I order. Snyder's ,2 to 3.but the service is better at Snyder s. If I have the head off my truck or something laying wide open and want it buttoned up quick,I order from Smith and Jones.
I doubt that many people post something on this forum "because they like to agree with everyone else". Just ask what kind of motor oil you should use.
Let's see, I have been doing this Model T stuff since 1954 when I was 12 years old. I still have the Model T instruction book they sent me from Ford when I wrote and asked them for one and told them I was 12 and working on a Model T. That figures out to be 60 + years. I have met thousands of Model T people all over the world since then. I'm sure there are virtually none of them that would tell you I "Just like to agree with everyone else."
Stan, I was 12 in 1944, also working on a T (that I still have).
I don't care for the rant above.
Those are some mighty pretty carbs on that other thread
Is this a good time to bring up water pumps?
I thought all Model T's were black.??????
Steve, I thought we were all supposed to be using "Wolf head" oil. Harv
sure miss Royce
That's good, but I like Lesh. Buy local when you can.
Those on the other side of the world find the postings in this forum very useful in determining which suppliers to choose and avoid. It's a lot harder to put a problem right this far away and usually not economical to do so.
I wouldn't call it "bashing" to report negative experiences. When many unrelated folk report one company as giving poor service but other companies giving good service, one would have to assume it's not an isolated case. Rather, it's a warning to investigate further before choosing to purchase.
Taking note of other people's experiences before purchase means that in my 12 years of T ownership, I've never had a bad experience buying parts. Snyders, Texas T Parts, Bergs, and Fun Projects all have a very good reputation here, and using those suppliers I have been 100% happy with their service.
Harvey,About 12 years ago my friend had a Honda civic and had the engine replaced.The service tech told him to use Wolfs Head oil it as it was the same as Honda oil. I aint so sure you can even find it now.
We T owners are blessed with so many suppliers to choose from when needing parts. Look at other brands and you will see not so many choices. I try to spread the business all around to make make sure all stay in business. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Losing one would have a negative impact on our hobby. Pat them all on the head and say I love you, thanks.