Dashboard question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Dashboard question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 01:47 pm:

I am needing the proper dash to fit the body shown in the following photo. I have one that *almost fits* except it doesn't. What year is it? It doesn't have the steering column support bracket common to '22 and later but has a lower hole that mounts to the body, common to '23 and later.
What does the dash look like for the body shown.
dash
No fit dash
dash 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 03:12 pm:

The one you want is the early steel dash, '19-'22, it is more straight, (not angled), and doesn't have the curved in corners of the later '23-'25 dash.


Early steel dash, (lots of stuff on it now :-) ), but note the straight ends.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 03:19 pm:

That 'no-fit' dash you have is an Mar-April 1923 dash, just before the addition of the bracket for the steering column.


early '23 without bracket for steering column


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 05:15 pm:

Dan,
Thanks...I think I have one of those dash panels, but didn't recognize it. The attached photos show that panel...is that the right one?
Need to bend the tabs back. Now I need the pieces associated with the windshield. The strip across the top of the dash as well as the stanchions.
Thanks again

1920 dash
1920 dash 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 06:27 pm:

The steering column support was needed when the first metal firewall's came out in early 1923 and the steering column started flopping around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 07:02 pm:

John,I have those strips for the front cowl,new. My son makes them.$10 plus shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 07:18 am:

Jack,
Could you please provide a photo of the strip...not sure what it looks like completely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 09:43 am:

John, If you are talking about the thin strip (about one inch wide) that goes at the top area of the cowl. Im not sure if it is used with the dash board. I could be wrong, and stand to be corrected. I have taken the dash boards off lots old bodies and they had no one inch wide strip. The one inch wide strips I found were on cars with no dash boards. In the photos above I see three different dash boards. Dans first photo shows a dash board and a one inch strip used together. But I see no way the strip could "hook under" at the bottom of the strip with the dash board behind it. Then the second pic shows a dash board with no strip, but it appears to have a stepped flange stamped into the dash board. Then your dash board. The one inch strip (aprox size as I have none to measure) is a simple sheet metal piece with 2 flanges about 1/4 to 3/8 inch wide, folded under/over, to "hook over" the top of the cowl and "hook under" the inner cowl support strip. Ill try to get a pic later if no one else shows how it all works together...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 10:56 am:

How can something seemingly so simple get so complicated?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 11:40 am:

Generally,the pre 21 cars used the strip.In some there was a 1/4.#20 machine bolt through the middle of strip ,but not always. The strip clips over the edge of cowl and is crimped on the bottom in 2-3 spots. They are 33 1/4 inches lon and 1 1/4 inches wide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 06:37 pm:

I am still struggling with the 1920 dash fit. The one that I have shown appears to be a fit, but again, it doesn't. I hooks to the cowl OK, but interferes with the body. I see no fit for the *strip* that has been discussed.
The attached photo shows the interface between the cowl lip and the dash *hook*. Seems OK.
Anybody know what it really is supposed to look like...and fit??

dash fit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 07:54 pm:

If you look at the pictures Dan posted it shows the strip,then the dash mounts below it.The holes in upper dash corners mount to wind shield posts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 07:58 pm:

John,

I took a look at my roadster. The strip Jack shows the picture of and describes fits over the upper edge of the cowling and crimped in place on the bottom. This before the dash panel is installed. The dash panel then goes behind the front upper lip of the cowling (and strip)--IE inside the cowling not in front. Mine is also secured by the round head screws on each side on the top and also the middle. The bottom side tabs on the dash fit on the same bolts holding the windshield brackets. Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 08:00 pm:

John,

Also look at the first picture Dan Treace posted. It show the assembled dash and strip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 08:08 pm:

As a general rule if you had a starter equipped open car in 1919 to 1920-ish, it should have a dashboard and no strip. I am not where I can look up the date the starters became available on the open cars. But, I am still a believer that there should be "No" 1919 "model year open cars that were equipped with a starter from the factory. So, in your case, if you are building an open 1920 starter car you will "only" use the dashboard with the straight bottom and no strip like shown above. That way there is a place to mount the switch and amp gauge. Now if you were building a non starter car you would not use the dash board at all and "only" use the strip shown above. Then your ignition switch will be on the coil box like earlier cars. For a starter car you will need the windshield lower castings with "No" ears for side lights. Some people will use the side light type castings on their starter car because they like the looks of the sidelights. You really need the windshield lower castings while you are fitting the dash to the body. While I believe Im correct on all this, I am doing it from memory, as Im not near my literature at this time. Does this make it more simple :-), or more complicated. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 08:44 pm:

But what about the Ford archives where on May 19 1919 it says, "Starters on some open cars" (appears prior to this date)?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 08:56 pm:

Donnie,I disagree with the word"only" in your post. It would mean the dash has to be higher to line everything up.I have never seen one like that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 02:18 pm:

Thank you all. I now realize how the correct dash is installed. I guess I will include the *strip* although it seems not to be essential. Looks like it will make a *finish* to the installation....particularly providing a smooth edge at the top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 08:42 pm:

John, I think I was incorrect in the way the straight bottom dash fits. I have been finding, and taking photos of the parts I have, is the reason for the slow response. I said that the top of the dash board "hooks" over the top of the cowl. After looking at what parts I have, I think it may fit between the cowl and the angle iron support. I want to state that this is my opinion and Im just not sure anymore. Here is a picture of the top of the cowl, and the top of the dash in position to "slide" between the cowl and the angle iron. I also have the windshield lower casting in position also. The problem is that the cowl is "spot welded" to the angle iron. Anyone have any ideas as to how it went together. John, What did you finally decide on as to how to install your dash. I have always said I am no expert on any of this, but I am trying to learn all I can. If Im wrong I want to be the first to admit it. But right now Im just confused .:-(

in position pic

Im also going to post some pics of 3 dashes that I have. and some pics of some cowls. There is a early 1915 style with no holes, and then a mid to late 1915 two piece cowl, and then the later low cowl with the steel upper cowl supports. I welcome any thoughts on how the strip was to be used with the dashes. You were right when you said "how could something so simple get so complicated" :-)

dashes

cowl 1

cowl 2

cowl 3

crimp

windshield castings


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 10:38 pm:

Donnie,
#1 may not be early '15, as it has a notch for the radiator rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Monday, February 23, 2015 - 07:17 pm:

Donnie...and others.
Thanks for the support, time and details on this question. I think it is resolved...after collecting all the comments.
The attached sketch shows my understanding of the relationship between the cowl, dash and the finish strip. Hopefully someone will either bless this or correct it.
Thanks all,
John
cowl dash 4


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