What "Lagging" is Best for the Exhaust Pipe?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: What "Lagging" is Best for the Exhaust Pipe?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 08:41 pm:

OK, in a bid to try to cool ME down in the cockpit I thought I would try lagging the pipe with some sort of thermal wrap. What have you used that works well, is easy to apply & is readily available & cheap?

Maybe that is too much to ask for all in one product but if I could get something locally Saturday morning I might get a chance to try it installing it Sunday and see if it is any improvement.

Vintage Paul, tryin to be cool . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 08:55 pm:

Thermo-tec products work great and are sold by most Napa's. 2"x50' header wrap, Napa part# BK 7353958 -- should be about $60

You need some type of metal banding, or straping kit ---they have those too---or you can even use a hose clamp to hold the end(s) down when you finish the wrap.

Thermotecs website:
http://www.thermotec.com/products/categories.html

Wraps section:
http://www.thermotec.com/products/category/1/exhaust-insulating.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 06:53 am:

Paul I have found that the thermal wrap kits usually come with these kind of metal strips that have a self-locking mechanism, almost like a zip-tie. They are junk. It's impossible to get them tight enough to be worth a darn. I would put hose clamp on both ends and then you can tighten it and not worry about your wrap coming loose.

I can't remember the exact name of the product I bought but it was a titanium, almost gun-metal color. The roll was 2" and I forget how long. If you get 15' that will be plenty. I got mine at Advance Auto Parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 07:31 am:

How far along the exhaust pipe do you guys think is far enough? I have taken mine to the muffler and used that clamp to lock the lagging in place. Once I fitted it past the front passengers feet I decided to continue on past the fuel tank and thought I may as well go as far as the front of the muffler. Would there be an issue retaining the extra heat?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 10:53 am:

Paul -- All of the stores which sell modern auto parts will have some sort of thermal wrap for exhaust systems. It'll be a 2-3" wide strip which you wind around and around the pipe, overlapping each turn a bit. You can easily do it in a couple of hours. I ran mine from the pack nut (leave an inch or so uncovered so you can remove the nut when you want to) nearly to the muffler and secured both ends using stainless steel hose clamps. It is easy to do and works very well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 12:06 pm:

Thanks guys, I like the idea of using stainless hose clamps as they can be tightened if needed. I'll look Saturday morning before the ragtime music meeting to see what I can find.

Alan raised a question that I have been contemplating. If we lag the pipe, what happens to any heat that it prevents from radiating?

Trying to think like an exhaust pipe, its biggest desire would be to return to ambient temperature. It gets hot via thermal flow from the exhaust manifold and by hot exhaust gasses and by possibly still burning fuel passed along from the motor.

The lagging restricts the pipes ability to radiate heat so it must pass this along somehow. I would guess the pipe would run a lot hotter and the exhaust gasses passed on to the muffler would have to carry additional heat rearward to the muffler and out the tailpipe. The entire exhaust system would have to run hotter.

My car has a stainless pipe and no muffler clamp to allow the pipe to rotate as the chassis flexes and that means that leaking gasses from the pipe/muffler joint will be hotter. How much hotter? Could it be dangerously so? What about that Stainless pipe? Could it be harmed by restricting the heat radiation by lagging?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter C. Strebeck on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 12:53 pm:

I wrapped the pipe on my T about 6 years ago with no problems, and I couldn't be happier with the results, in reducing the heat and how it looks. I had used the DEI Titanium Exhaust Wrap, bought it on eBay and also bought 200 stainless steel zip/cable ties for $10, because the chief complaint was the ties that they provide in the kit were useless. Both products worked great, the wrap and the stainless ties. Just remember to put the packing nut on before you put on the heat wrap, and be sure to start and run the vehicle OUTSIDE. The heat wrap will smoke and shrink to the pipe.

I wrapped the pipe from the manifold to the muffler and used half of the wrap that was supplied (50 feet). I sold the rest/extra heat wrap on eBay along with a dozen of the stainless zip ties for $30.00.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 04:42 pm:

Thanks guys, I'm glad to hear there have been no issues like wrecking the muffler or setting fire to dry grassy fields. I have been told not to park a car with a cat on a flammable surface for just that reason.

I just made a run to City Hall & the bank and stopped by local Auto Zone to see if they might have header wrap. The pimply faced teenagers had never heard of it but did show me to the exhaust section where I found a single package of 2" x 50' BLACK Exhaust Insulating Wrap by COOL IT Thermo Tec. I'll see about getting it installed Sunday. Who knows, mebbee there will be enough left over to do the '39 Caddie which had asbestos lagging from the factory . . .

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 04:49 pm:

"I have been told not to park a car with a cat on a flammable surface for just that reason."

What?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 05:04 pm:

http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/airquality/mobilesource/vetech/catfire.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 05:21 pm:

Catalytic Converter = Cat.

Some national parks will not let you pull to the side of the road when it's dry due to the heat retained by a catalytic converter because of the fire hazard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 05:32 pm:

Paul,Have you tried riching up the carb a little to reduce the heat? Sounds like you are running way to lean. Does exhaust manifold glow at night?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 06:56 pm:

I haven't looked at the manifold while running at night. As to the mixture, I adjust it just the same way I would an airplane motor. I run the motor up a bit, adjust for maximum revs and richen slightly to keep the valves cool. Is there a better way?

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 09:09 pm:

I'm different than most folks,I guess.Once I get a carb set ,I never touch it.Fidling with more or less isn't my thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 10:01 pm:

Paul -- At a slightly fast idle, turn the mixture knob to the lean side until it slows a bit, then open it back up only to where it runs well. That's the "sweet spot." Then, as Uncle Jack says, leave it there. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 01:20 pm:

Thanks Mike, that is pretty much just what I do EXCEPT for starting from cold. At the first start of the day, this motor likes a richer mixture so a 1/4 turn to the left seems to help it fire quickly and after just a bit of running it goes back to the right a 1/4 turn. This Flivver does not seem to like choke at all.

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 01:27 pm:

Chad, your steer to the Thermo-Tec website was very helpful. They have a lot of neat stuff and are the source of the insulating sleeves I bought on eBay that worked so well on the Model T fuel line.

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 08:26 pm:

Paul, I have used their products for years on modern hot rods/ muscle cars. They make great stuff. We have also some of their products in diesel truck repair at work. You don't think that big rigs on the road would be a "harsh" environment, but they really are, and the fact it stands up to situations like that is a great proving ground. And if you happen to have a well equipped Napa near you, they can get most of their products and may even have some in stock.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 12:32 am:

Chad I'm glad you said that bit of information.
I have felt that most on this forum would not respond to any my responses as I do work on many types of automobiles. From hot rods, Corvettes, muscle cars, old drag racing cars, exotics, and Euro cars. I have even put together kit cars for some. My son and grandson Asphalt stock car race too. So we are into CARS I guess. I also build T's to the way the were manufactured! So thanks!
I don't post much because when I DO go back it seems I am ignored (no responses). No replies or responses then the less I leave as input. Whenever I do I am trying to help someone or put in what I have learned over the years dealing with T's. It may not always be so correct today and I value correctness in responses. I do not have time for misinformation or gripes. So thanks it is nice to know what others do with cars. Even Royce fiddles with Ford Muscle I have found from some of my past customers. This forum helps a lot with questions that I have (by reading what you all say).
Now my response about the heat tape. I have found it rots the exhaust pipes and headers. But it does hold the heat inside the pipe. Have used it on turbo installs and a couple of IMSA race cars is all. Does anyone use stainless for their exhaust pipe construction?
Joe in Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 03:01 am:

JG - Jack Roush exhaust systems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 06:56 am:

Joseph, There are many here into "other modern" cars. Post away on your questions, sometimes it is the time of day--or week for that matter that things don't get answered.


Anyhow, back to the "rotting" issue that has been documented over time. The wrap is essentially a cloth like material. It will absorb moisture, and without heating it full up to temps, it will cause condensation to get trapped and not released. Some of it is the environment it is stored in, some of it is the material and thickness the pipe is made from. Like everything else, for some it will work great, and some will have problems.

We have used the header wrap on some big rig applications to retain the heat for the catalyst system to work properly. Almost two years later, we have seen some of those trucks come back and upon disassembling have found no rot through. However SOME pipes exhibited more rust scaling on the outside than others---yes, what would be considered the beginning of rot.

But why only some trucks? They start out all the same in our shop. Some trucks are run year round, some aren't, some are stored inside--some garages heated some not, some are stored outside, some are run in salt environments (northeast snow belt), some are run in warmer southern states. This is also why some people have no issues with wrap products and some do. It is the environment and usage that ultimately effects the under laying material or pipe.

But ultimately, "word of mouth" -- or internet nowadays, can give a good product a bad rap. As the old saying goes it only takes a few bad apple to ruin a batch. What may work for a few hundred, may not work for 20 other people. But like most things in life, you only tend to hear about the bad and nothing is guaranteed.

I will say, I have never personally used the header wrap on my own cars to wrap pipes. I have used it to shield certain areas though and it has worked great. I have also used starter wraps, plug wire and boot products, and a few other of the reflective materials also with excellent results.

Your mileage may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 - 09:04 pm:

Joe - there is a stainless exhaust pipe available, I got one from Chaffin looking to get more clearance from the fuel line as it has a slightly different bend than the one that was already on the car.

With any luck this will prevent the rust issues many have had with steel pipes. BTW, I got RAINED OUT of my work session Sunday and will have to reschedule. March is already looking VERY full so it may be some time.

Vintage Paul


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