French T Camionette

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: French T Camionette
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ian Dean on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 08:13 am:

Hi - can anyone help me with an estimate in pounds of the weight of my 1923 Ford T Camionette. I need to trailer it back to England from France and need to know what trailer and towing vehicle to use.French T Camionette


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 08:18 am:

Neat car! Here is a link to some Model T weights as published by Ford. Just by eyeball I would say that yours can't weigh more than 1800 pounds.

http://www.mtfca.com/books/ford.htm#wts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 09:53 am:

I'd guess 1,800 - 2,000.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 10:30 am:

200 pounds is just under 9000 Newtons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 10:31 am:

Make that 2000 pounds!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 10:44 am:

About 900 kilograms. That's a SWAG.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 11:05 am:

Thomas, who gives a fig about Newtons? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 11:42 am:

Dick

LOL!!!

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Where did that name come from and how do you pronounce it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 01:15 pm:

Charlie, assuming you mean "camionette" (and not "fig newton"), a "camion" in French is a truck and a "camionette" is a small truck. That's a generic explanation. I believe in France it is used specifically for certain models of certain makes. Perhaps Ian can shed more light on that.

I would sort of hazard cah-mee-oh-net as an approximate phonetic pronunciation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ian Dean on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 04:07 pm:

Dick - your pronounciation is exactly correct. In French a "Camion" is a lorry and a "Camionette" is a small lorry or van. They were used by farmers to carry goods or animals, and with a seat put in the back to carry the family too. The chassis was imported from USA and assembled at Bordeaux, and the body built locally in the Loire valley. The tailgate folds down, and there was a canvas top - this has been removed for renovation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 04:16 pm:

Yes, Ian, none of the difficult French sounds in that one...

My only comment is that a "camion" is probably not a "lorry" in New Jersey, but rather a "truck." :-)

I have had three 2CVs in my life, but never a camionette. I'd have loved to have had one over here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 06:26 pm:

Ian,

I would recommend weigh the car. Most small cities and larger in the USA have a public scales. That will tell you for certain what your car weighs. The link to the data Mark gave you is excellent for standard USA Fords. But the real question is how much does your car's body weigh? If it was a depot hack I would suspect the wood body would be much lighter than the body that was built to carry things as a truck.

Note, if the tail gate is hinged at the bottom - most are. And if the tail gate uses the same construction and materials as the rest of the sides of the truck bed, you could estimate the weight of the rest of the truck bed. Park the T on level ground. Open the tail gate level. Either use a wooden piece of lumber to go from the tail gate down to the bathroom scales or use a stool to raise the bathroom scales up to the tail gate. Take the reading you get and multiply it by 2. That will give you a fairly accurate estimate of what the tail gate weighs. Compare the width of the tail gate to the length of the sides of the truck. My guess they are about 1/3 longer. And confirm if the part next to the front seat is the same or heavier. If the same then to estimate the weight of the truck bed we would have the weight shown on the scales X 2 x 4 2/3 would be the weight of the sides of the truck bed. What is the floor of the truck bed made out of? If it was set up for very light hauling -- it will be lighter than if it was set up to carry a heavy load etc.

Once you have the estimated weight of the bed -- add that to the weight of the runabout and you should have a close approximation. But if you actually weigh the car -- the number you will obtain will be more accurate.

When in doubt -- a larger tow vehicle and trailer designed for a higher weight is much better to have than one that is too small or not designed for the weight.

Good luck and have a safe trip.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 12:23 am:

Wonderful looking model T, whatever you prefer it be called. I very much enjoy reading posts from our model T family from all around the world.
Camionette. Delightful!
Do drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ian Dean on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 07:22 am:

Hi - this is for Dick
I attach two photos, the car is my 1960 2CV that I use in france on a daily basis. 60mpg is great. The Camionette belongs to a local collector. The early ones are much sought after in France & UK"CV2CV VAN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 07:38 am:

Actually, there is a way to weigh a car without a scale and be pretty darned close.

Measure the area of the footprint for each tire and then multiply by the pressure of the tire. You can use 4 pieces of paper tucked up to the tire to make the 'frame', mark the corners, and measure later. Capture all 4 tires this way and add them up.

I know, when I've mentioned this in the past most feel that I have finally crossed over to dotage...but...if you take the time to get the footprint right, and have a fairly decent pressure gauge, you'd be surprised to see how close it actually comes to reality :-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 08:41 am:

George,

There is always more to learn and more to improve upon. Many people thought the world was flat for years before someone sailed far over the horizon and came back and said no -- we didn't fall off the edge.
If the Wright brothers had assumed that the currently published lift to drag ratios for wings was correct – they probably never would have gotten air borne for very long. Instead they tried those published figures/designs and said – it isn’t working well. They developed their own wind tunnel and made their own measurements. They discovered the published tables were off by quite a bit. And they designed their airplane wing using what they had discovered and documented. [If anyone has a chance to see the Wright Brother’s Museum at Kitty Hawk – it has a lot of neat items, including information about their wind tunnel.]

In the case of estimating the weight of the car by using the air pressure and area of the footprint of the car, I had not heard of that before (nor have I heard of most things – for example I know very little about early autos that are not Fords etc. ). When I Googled “estimating the weight of a car by measuring the footprint of the tire,” I only found one related response (ok -- I didn't try that long). It is found at: http://exploratorium.edu/snacks/tired_weight/index.html . And since that is a reputable museum and education site that has lots of "experiments" for educators to use with their classes, [if you have a younger child or grandchild check out the numerous “fun” activities at: http://exploratorium.edu/snacks/ ] it is a much more credible source than someone that says “I read it on the internet somewhere.” It is too cold for me at the moment to try it out. It might work really well, ok, or marginally. They did say to compare the numbers you obtained using that method with the actual weight in the owners manual to see how close you were.

When it gets warmer in the spring if I have time, I will want to give it a try and see how close of an estimate it gives on my 1918 touring and 1931 Model A, one with clinchers and one with 19 inch balloon tires.

So thanks George for sharing that method.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 08:45 am:

Small world, Ian. I went to France in 1968 after getting out of the Air Force. I ended up getting a clerical job with Paramount in Paris (near the Opera) and living in a student pension in the Latin Quarter. It was frustrating me not to have a car (although a car in Paris is impractical if you don't have a garage). I managed to find a... you guessed it... 1960 2CV pretty much identical to yours. Centrifugal clutch, windshield wiper driven by the speedometer cable, long stick to check fuel level (prepared me for the T years later)... Drove it to Holland for Christmas '68 and back before New Year's. Ten days later, my boss called me in and asked if I wanted to be transferred to Amsterdam. Drove back to Holland a week later.

The first of three 2CVs I have owned through the years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ian Dean on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 11:25 am:

Dick - what a great car. As a past owner you can really appreciate the 2CV. They are as big an icon as the "T" is in the USA. When we drive our 2CV the locals all wave, but they mostly ignore the "T". Not their heritage I guess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Torsten Lampe - Altwittenbek, Germany on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 01:17 pm:

one of my cars today :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Bracknell United Kingdom on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 05:38 pm:

I had a 2cv once. Wouldn't start if the day was remotely dampish. 60mpg? no chance, had to be driven at full throttle at all times to maintain any progress whatsoever. Devil machines.

The camionette version is usually known as the Van Ordinaire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 07:48 pm:

French automakers have always been industry leaders in ugly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 08:55 pm:

Burger if you got nothing good to say then you might as well say nothing at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 09:08 pm:

If I ever win the lottery, one of the first cars I will buy is another 2CV... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 09:47 pm:

I hope you win it, Dick. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 09:53 pm:

From your mouth to God's ear, Mike.... :-)

If I do, I'll drive the 2CV to Arkansas and give you a ride.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Torsten Lampe - Altwittenbek, Germany on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 06:14 am:

Good morning, many of us love the 2CV. She was popular with students. Now, many are graduated and go for the good old days still 2CV. Maybe just as a second car. But the Model T Ford is better to classes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 09:59 am:

If I still lived in Holland, I would probably have one. The son of a friend owns a business that buys, sells and repairs them. This is a photo I took there in 2006.



Here is his website, if you're ever in the market. (Apparently the English version hasn't been done yet. Don't bother to click on it....)

http://www.citroen-klassiekers.nl/Nederlands/Algemene-Info.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Torsten Lampe - Altwittenbek, Germany on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 11:13 am:

Very good, I listed the link in my favourites. Nice picture! If the cars are restored with original parts properly done you won`t have any problems even when used on a daily basis, provided you do the servicing.


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