1909-13 Ford pliers without a screwdriver handle***Info needed**

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 1909-13 Ford pliers without a screwdriver handle***Info needed**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Jauss on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 10:17 pm:

Hi, I have been researching a pair of old Ford pliers my dad found at a thrift store and had stumbled upon an old conversation thread from 2008 or 2009 regarding an extremely rare type of Ford pliers that didn't come with a screwdriver ended handle in addition to being marked Ford on both halves....and as I'm reading this my heart starts beating faster and faster because what I have in front of me seems to fit the criteria. So I joined your forum to post this message AS WELL AS attaching pics I took. I'm just wanting to know what your thoughts are. I'm having difficulties posting a pic on here...if its easier i could email anyone all the pics..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Jauss on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 10:26 pm:

the specs are:
hand wrought iron
raised Ford logo on each side
a small circle with a T above a W with line dividing them inside it is also stamped on each handle.
No flat head screwdriver on either half.

Every time I try to upload a pic an error pops up saying pic size tooo large... Troubleshooting tips welcomed. Thanks, CAm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 10:26 pm:

i for one would love to see a picture. email me. jackdaron@aol.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 10:36 pm:

Cameron, do they look like the ones on the far right of the pictures below? I believe that those are actually English Ford pliers. I don't recall what the T W mark stands for right now but it is a English tool maker from what I remember reading. Out of all of the pliers shown in the pictures, I think that the ones on the left are the earliest ones. Every plier shown is different.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Jauss on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 11:11 pm:

Jack, I just emailed 8 or 9 pics to you. Let me know what you think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Jauss on Saturday, February 21, 2015 - 11:22 pm:

Well I knew it would be to good to be true.Is the one I have got any value to it?
Sorry to all you guys for the false alarm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 12:10 am:

What I heard was they later came out with the screwdriver end pliers the save having to supply a separate screwdriver. I don't think they are worth a dime more than any other. Plenty of ebay dreamers think they are rare and valuable. Fact is, they made 20 million sets of tools for Ts and As. I see them everywhere. The cars went for scrap and the tools lived on. Most are a $3- $5 item.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 10:02 am:

I was excited a few years ago when I found some like the ones on the right in the pictures above. It turns out that's just how they made them in England. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 04:59 pm:

All early Ford drawings show the screwdriver end, and there is no information about it in the Releases. Even the early parts books' drawings show the screwdriver tip. Though I have no definitive proof, I believe that "early pliers had no screwdriver end" is one of the Model T myths. The very few that appear without one probably slipped through inspection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 05:19 pm:

Justin and Mike,

Each of you referred to "the ones on the far right" or "the ones on the right" in the photos. The 2 photos I see each have 6 pairs of pliers arranged vertically. There are none on the right or left. They are in a single column.

Is it me?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 05:34 pm:

Henry, I sometimes get the same thing when I look at the forum on the phone. It seems that the pictures get oriented differently depending on what type of device is used for viewing. The English pliers would be on the bottom of what you are looking at.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 05:40 pm:

No kidding! I am using an iPad not a PC. I guess that explains it.

Thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 07:08 pm:

In other discussions about tools, on this forum, I have seen statements about the lack of a Ford script in the early tool sets of 1909-12. Some have said that none of the early tools had a Ford script, except the #1917 band wrench.

I have pliers that look identical to the Ford script pliers, except they do NOT have a screwdriver handle and NO Ford script. I have always believed that the unmarked ones came from outside suppliers, such as Western Auto. Some of them have a McCaigh-Hatch (MH) marking. Could it be true that the unmarked pliers are actually Ford?

Likewise, I have seen many adjustable wrenches without the Ford script. I believe someone said (on this forum) that the early adjustable wrenches were cheaply made and the sliding jaw was sheet metal riveted together. I also have wrenches like that. I have thought about doing some research on this but I don't know where to look. I also believe someone said that some of the drawings for tools are missing in the Ford archives. Does anyone have any knowledge (or opinions) on this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 09:02 pm:

The only early Ford tool I'm aware of that has the Ford script is the band wrench. Please read, and understand RV's comments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

Larry,
Yes, I agree with R.V. about the pliers always having the screwdriver end. The question that has been unanswered for me (for many years now) is: Did the early (1909-1912) pliers have the Ford script? That is what has been difficult (for me) to prove.

Over the years I have seen various examples of pliers with NO Ford script. Some of them have a screwdriver end and some do not. The conventional wisdom has been that those without the script were sold by aftermarket suppliers. Other guys have always been quick to tell me that if it does NOT have the script then it must be from Western Auto (or another auto store). It would be nice if someone could find proof of what the early tools looked like. So far, no one has come up with the smoking gun for this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 09:37 pm:

I wish I had a dollar for every pair of pliers I have handled, looking for ones with a ford script. There are so many, my thoughts are that many indeed had no script, but that does not help to identify them positively as Ford products.

Of interest is that many of the Canadian sourced ones I have seen in Australia have the Ford script raised, but it only appears so because the rectangular background to the script is stamped down into the handle.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Sunday, February 22, 2015 - 09:48 pm:

My conclusion of this matter (as of now) is that the early pliers looked just like the later ones but with NO Ford script. Does anyone have any arguments with that statement?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, February 23, 2015 - 10:51 am:

I agree with Rick. I don't think we'll ever know.
Maybe next time I'm at the archives, I can check the print.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, February 23, 2015 - 11:59 am:

I went back through my Archives notebook to see what I had recorded. The pliers had two designs, T-1903 A1 and A2. The A1 drawing clearly shows the "lobster claw" style of jaws that has always been labeled the "early type." The A2 design shows the somewhat slimmer, "standard" type jaws. Both designs had screwdriver tips; the A2 pliers is 1/8" longer overall, and both had the Ford script. The first drawing is dated 7-22-13 but for some reason I failed to record in my notes if it showed the Ford script or if it was added later. I seem to recall that both designs had the script from the beginning but could be recalling wrongly. I do have one of the "lobster claw" pliers and it has the script, but all of my T pliers do, so that's not saying much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, February 23, 2015 - 06:42 pm:

RV -- Just after you got home from your trip to the Archives, you sent me an email saying that you had found that the early pliers had no Ford script.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 - 10:03 am:

Well, chalk up another one to foggy frontals!


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