On a runabout with an early 1920's chassis, installed a Lang's battery carrier to replace that which is not there. Lining the carriers mounting holes up to the original frame holes puts the carrier about 5" forward of where it should be to center it in the existing turtle deck cutout. That cutout appears to be about as far forward as it can be, so that is not seeming to be the problem. Drilling new frame holes is not a problem, but what would cause the mismatch? Was the battery in the same location for each of the models for a given year? And did that change year to year?
Is the chassis original to the body? I don't remember any one discussing this situation before and don't have a coupe or roadster to check but I do recall a discussion on marked frames. Perhaps the battery bracket was relocated on coupes and roadsters. But that's just a guess.
There are two battery brackets. One is the 19-23 and 23-27. The later was used with a battery box.
Henry: I have also thought that the battery carrier all went in the same location.
I would investigate this real good. I would like to know how the earlier style battery carriers differ from the later ones? I have a '25 that didn't have a battery carrier on the frame when I got it, but it did have the holes for one, so I didn't have the problem you are having. The battery box goes inside of the battery carrier.
I was thinking the battery carriers were all in the same location. I have a 1919 Runabout and a 21 Touring that are 'put together from correct parts' and the battery carrier is the same location on both cars I thought. But then again I thought the battery carriers were all the same.
Maybe the battery box made the difference?
I also have a 24 Coupe and the battery carrier is the same as the ones in my other 2 'put together cars'.
When I built the Touring and Runabout I didn't realize there was any differences in the battery carriers. They looked like the one in my Coupe.
I thought the holes in the frames were all stamped or drilled in the same location to keep things alike as much as possible when the cars were assembled. But that's just my opinion.
How far back is the frame mounted from the rear cross member? Do you have pressed or forged running board supports? As far as I know all frames had the holes in the same place till the end of production. I ask about the running board supports because maybe someone used and earlier frame and drilled the holes in the wrong place to mount it. Or it could be that the hole in your floor is in the wrong place.
The carrier that Lang's sells is noted for use without the battery box even though it's listed as 19-27. The parts book (Aug. 1928) lists a 19-23 carrier and a 23-27 carrier. The 23-27 carrier has a note at the bottom of the page saying it's for use with a battery box or rubber battery. I suspect it's dimensionally different somehow.
But, that doesn't relate to the problem.
There was a discussion some years ago about some frames being found with "Coupe" imprinted on the inside of the frame rail but I can't find it. I don't remember the outcome or if it was determined to be an original factory marking. This thread jarred my memory. I thought they were in the same place too.
(Message edited by ccwken on February 24, 2015)
A quick check on mine looks to be between 12 and 13 inches back from the rear cross member. Mine is a 1921 and had a coupe body on it when I got it.
(Message edited by redmodelt on February 24, 2015)
Where's all that frame research that was done a couple of years ago? Or was it last year? Someone detailed all the holes in the frames over the years and posted drawings with the measurements. We should have a place to keep all those posts.
I only mentioned the earlier thread about the Coupe frame because I thought it may relate. I don't remember anyone mentioning any specific differences in the frame but it would be easy to overlook the location of the battery bracket.
Mark, what part of the bracket is 12-13" from the cross member? The single rail, one of forks or a bolt location?
two bare frames i have layin here are, from the front face of the rear member, drivers side-15" and 20 7/8, pass side, 19 1/2. frame #2 dr side, 15 1/8, pass side 21, close but the pass side 19" ! that one was crooked from new. all measurements on center
Here's and old thread that talks about frame holes:
That's the frame measurement thread, Mark. Thanks!
Here's part 2.
The thread about coupe frame marking is much older. I hope it wasn't before the "big crash" but I can't be the only old timer here that remembers it.
My 26 Coupe, 27 Touring, 25 Hack all have the battery box in the exact same location. Jerry.
I will take some measurements and compare to what's above. Thanks.
Below is a photo showing the LH empty frame holes. And above is the cutout for the battery. You can see the mismatch. Should those two holes be centered front-back with the trunk floor access cutout?
Henry, do a search on the forum of 'what year'. The post was in Dec 2014.
The post was about the 15-22 turtle decks and you can see some pics of my 1919 turtle showing the battery location. There are others also.
Hope this helps.
ken, I measured from the front of the rear cross member to the back of the frame at the top of the battery carrier. It was just a quick ball park check. Where the car is parked, without pulling it out and taking the floor out of the back that was I got.
If you look at the battery carrier closely, you will see that the portion of it that goes over to the right hand side is bent off center slightly. That was done intentionally to clear the muffler. As I recall too, the hole for that portion of the carrier was either 7/16 or 1/2 for some reason.`
Any up dates?