**Tie Rod and Spring Shackles Assembly**

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: **Tie Rod and Spring Shackles Assembly**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 05:09 pm:

Ok, since I'm not sure what the cutoff dates are for the "Tie Rod and Spring Shackles" assemblies are, I'm going to assume that they're the same as the "Front Spindle" assemblies. The other thing I'm not entirely certain of, is how the years that aren't mine or close to it look either.
I know that the early cars had rounded leaves on the spring whereas mine are "dog ears" and I think they were a bit more tapered as well and probably had a couple more leaves too. Again I'm not sure of this, I'm only guessing. I also know that depending on what car and body style there were also more or less leaves in the spring assemblies. The spring in these drawings is for reference purposes, otherwise I'd probably have twice the number of drawings depending upon which car/truck/body style it was for. I'll cover that in a drawing expressly for the springs.

These two assemblies that I've drawn only pertain to the tie rod, steering rod and spring shackles. I thought of putting the spring assembly on it as well, but there just isn't enough room and still show everything clearly. I'd of had to shrink things to where they were itty-bitty and then you'd only be able to make out that the spring had leaves and there is a couple or rods connected in some way to the front spindle. So, in the interest of clarity and ease of identification of the various parts (even so it's still pretty complicated), I've left out the spring assembly...for now.





Now before somebody tells me that the "Ford" logo on the ball cap is upside down, on the passenger side of the car it is. On the drivers side it's not, just thought I'd mention that now. And that "F#" stands for "Factory Number".

Oh and if anybody knows what the original spring shackle looks like for this year, please let me know. This is what's on my car and I couldn't tell you when or where it came from.

Look it over and let me know if I've missed anything and if you know what the other years look like, please tell me about those too. Because I really do want to do them all. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 07:32 pm:

Hi Martin, great work again. Re the spring shackles, our Canadian sourced cars still had the two piece forged shackles up to 1922. US cars may have adopted the U shaped ones earlier.
A minor nit-pick, the end of the drag link is part of the forging and is flared into the shaft. The line you have drawn tends to indicate that the end is a separate part, like the earlier threaded end links.

Keep up the good work.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 08:16 pm:

Martin - I think your CAD drawings are fantastic! As Allan said, "a "minor nit-pick" from me too, and it might or might not be possible, because as you say, "there just isn't enough room", however,.....

Would it be possible to move the entire drag link, ball cap and bolts/nuts assembly slightly further to the right? This would allow the ball (2721B) and the nut (2721N) and the hole for same in the tie rod yoke to be shown in the same plane with a straight and correctly aligned dotted line, similar to the way you show the spring shackle, the hole thru' the perch, the removable part of the shackle and the nut all with a straight and correctly oriented dotted line thru' the perch. Just a thought that might make your exploded view easier to visualize, FWIW,.......harold (ex-draftsman from the '60's, long before CAD)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

Wow Martin!

These drawings you keep making are great. I just used one of yours today in a handout for our chapters annual safety day / workshop. We covered the front end as well as some other items and I used your spindle drawing.

I also used your Holley NH for the same reason. Those exploded views are great. Can't wait until you do the transmission!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 08:30 pm:

"Hint, hint",.....right Gary?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 09:55 pm:

Really? I didn't see a copyright but when I do I respect them. When I came up with plans for the HCCT I did not copyright them as I don't care who uses them. It appears Martin also creates these as he enjoys doing them and isn't looking to sell them. If I am wrong I will apologize and refrain from further use.

It was always my understanding that if you create something and submit it for public release without a copyright, anyone is free to use. I didn't crop out his name as credit is due the person who created it.

If they weren't for public use, why would they be posted in public?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Saturday, February 28, 2015 - 10:58 pm:

Allan, that's the way it is on mine too, but it looks like a shoulder. I guess I could soften the shoulder, maybe even put a small taper on it to show it's not a screwed together part.

Harold, moving it to the right isn't going to cut it much, there's only about an inch going that way and I've got to keep at least half of that as a dead space border. But what I can do and I thought about it at the time, is move the assembly up. That way you get more depth, but I'll have to dog leg the center line to connect with the spindle arm knuckle. That way it would clear enough room to see the ball nut more clearly.

Gary, I'm glad you were able to use my drawing for your club activity, it's what I'd hoped folks would do. Feel free to use them as long as you keep my name in the corner. Also if you guys need something that I haven't drawn (yet) let me know and if you have pictures, send those too and I'll do it...got to draw all the years and the whole car anyway, doesn't matter what comes next, really (I'm an artist with a lot of time on his hands :-) ).

As for the transmission, that would be a lot of fun to draw, all those gears and drums and all. But that will have to wait until I get the chassis, body and wood done...these are things that nobody seems to have tackled, so I thought I would.
You may have noticed, that when I do one, I do them all from 1909-1927, mainly because I'm following the thread of their evolution. And you can really see the differences as these assemblies evolved...now that's fun! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 02:48 am:

LIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 03:47 am:

Ok, I hope these corrections will work for everybody. I made some adjustments to the shackles they looked out of proportion to the bushings.





Now, how about those other years? I know the 1915's and earlier the wishbone was on top of the axle, but I'm not sure of the springs. Are they round ended or dog eared? The oilers would be twists I suppose or did they also have the manhole covered ones as well? The 1909's I'm pretty sure are round ended springs, twist oilers but the knuckle is I think a bit bigger than on later years. Also I'm not sure about the yoke ball, is it tapered or is it a straight shaft or for that matter cast in the tie rod? Some pictures would help...please


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 03:52 am:

Found an error on the 1919-1925 drawing, here's the correct one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 09:46 am:

Tie Rod Yoke (Spindle con. rod yoke) is Part #2721C (Factory #248B) 1919-1927.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 05:43 pm:

Damn Steve, I've got to get those bloody disc's! :-)





Factory number above, part number below.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 05:46 pm:

Small error, just had to correct it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 06:10 pm:

Hi Martin,

There were several different shackles used during this period. The early 17 still used the "figure eight" style shackle similar to the 13-16 type. After that came "L" shaped shackles (two halves). These had the crossbar stamped from a flat bar and the round part (that fit through the perch or spring) was self riveted to the flat bar. The two halves then fit together like the earlier shackles. My 1919 has these. After that came another split half shackle but the half was forged
in one piece (not riveted together). Finally the "U" shaped shackle was used. I don't know the exact time each type was introduced. Hope this helps. Keep up the good work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 06:11 pm:

Marin, the tie rod ball from 1919-21 had a straight shank. The tie rod balls from 21-27 had the taper.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 06:25 pm:

Martin: Are/will your drawings all in one place so they can be studied, printed or purchased?

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 09:00 pm:

Dennis, I know there are several shackle configurations, figuring out when each was used is something that I'm researching myself. This information is a good addition, thanks. Do you have any pictures of these different shackle types?

Stephen, ok, that's good to know, I'll correct that, means a whole new drawing though.

Phil, one day when I've got the entire production run of the Model T from 1909-1927, yes I may publish them in a book or CD format...right now though Don Lang has asked and we've come to an agreement to use them on his web site and catalog.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 04:24 pm:

That's good news, Martin. I'll look for them.

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, March 04, 2015 - 11:04 pm:

Ok, after a bit of reading and rereading posts here, talking and getting some really good pictures from Don Lang I've revised these two drawings to original equipment shackles.



And I've changed the title of the second one, from 1919 to 1922


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, March 05, 2015 - 02:47 am:

Ok, made another adjustment.



I noticed that the tapered ball starts at 1921, not 1919 and follows through 1927...the differences are the spring shackles, 1923-1927 are the "U" shape type. Different assemblies, as are 1909-1912 Mae West type, 1913- early 1917 are figure 8 style and 1917-1922 are the "L" style. Whereas the tie rod yoke ball with a no taper starts in 1917-1920 (what the earlier ones had I'm not sure but I'm still looking into those). How to show all the various changes of both shackle and tie rod yoke ball??? Different drawings for each, some will overlap, but then that's the way it happened with the car too didn't it?

There are many things that were original to the car that are not offered now by vendors (usually because they're either too complicated to make and/or costly to reproduce). My drawings will reflect on the assembly what was original to the car and also show the replacement part as well.
I don't know how many of you will use my drawings, I hope you won't take them as gospel, because they're not, I'm not an expert, I'm an artist, you guys are the experts. And depending on how well and often you check my work, is the only way to achieve their accuracy.
I am hoping you'll use them in much the same way I do...to know what part(s) goes where and what number to use when ordering them. Looking at a picture or an assembly drawing is far easier than scanning through pages of a catalog hunting for that one particular part, then having to decide if it'll fit or not or even goes to your car. Hopefully, these will help take the guess work out of some of that...if not, their pretty to look at. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, March 05, 2015 - 03:53 am:

1919-1921


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