Windshield rubber: How is it supposd to go?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Windshield rubber: How is it supposd to go?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 09:49 pm:


This is supposed to be the correct rubber for a 1915-1922 windshield. I wonder if anybody can explain how it's supposed to fit and work. I'm stumped.


That leads me to wonder: Does this car have the right windshield?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 09:58 pm:

Steve, the rubber fits on the upper glass and the little rubber wiper fits against your lower window when the windshield is up, to keep wind from coming under the glass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:01 pm:

Looks wrong to me. Mine is like a lower case H that goes over the glass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:02 pm:

It goes on top of the bottom pane of glass, with the "dangle" pointing down on the front side so it contacts the edge of the upper pane. The cars didn't have them originally, but they do help to keep the water out when you're driving in the rain.

The upper pane overlaps the lower one and is in front of it, so that rubber piece fits in there to close the gap. There are more than one ways to combine the hinge halves, so experiment if you need to, until you get them to fit that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:05 pm:

Three responses, three different answers. But mine is the right one. :-)

From the looks of your picture, I think you have the hinges installed wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson Absaroka County on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:11 pm:

Mike
So the correct orientation is the way Steve is holding the rubber piece?
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:28 pm:

When my windshield is up the rubber blade seals against the lower glass. I just went out and turned it around the way Mike said and it seals that way too. So I really don't think is makes much difference, it seals either direction. And since cars didn't have them originally...I don't see it as a one way only deal, it's only function is to keep rain and wind from coming between the glass halves of the windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

Following what Mike Walker posted -

The upper pane should overlap the lower pane. You should not have a gap. I noticed that in a photo you posted on March 2 in this thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/522258.html?1425695838

Maybe it can be cured if you swap the hinges to the opposite sides and rotate them 180 degrees. (Or would a later upper windshield half married to a 15-16 lower half cause this problem?)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:34 pm:

So it looks like I need to figure out how to get the upper glass to overlap the bottom one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:44 pm:

The more I look at the other photos of your car, the more I am stumped.

The upper windshield half should sit forward of the lower half. That's the only way the upper pane can overlap the lower pane.

But on your car, it looks like the upper half is directly above the lower half.

This is the windshield on my dad's '17 touring. Later windshield with unequal length windshield halts and hinge arms, but notice how the top half sits forward of the lower half and the panes overlap.

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 10:51 pm:

Ah Steve, your hinges are upside down. The small arm of the hinge should be on the upper frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 11:01 pm:

i can see in your photo the glass does not go up into the channel in the caps. glass on your upper frame is 1/4 inch short, or it would overlap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, March 06, 2015 - 11:23 pm:

Martin:

1915-16 and early 1917 model year hinge arms are equal in length, not like the later hinges such as on your 1922 and the 1917 I posted earlier.

I don't know if the overhang in 1915-16 was accomplished by different spacing of the screw holes on the upper or lower half compared to the 1917 and later windshields.

Maybe swapping and flipping the hinges will work like I mentioned earlier but the problem might be caused by something else, like a later upper half or just short glass as mentioned by Clayton.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 09:23 am:

its all in the books! steve needs the right hinges. look at org pic only.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 09:45 am:

Here's how original 1915 runabout windshield hinge looks. Note the unique brass nut used in 1915 only on the windshield hinges.

There are so many things that are unique to 1915 model year that were phased out by June when the 1916 model year began.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:01 am:

there you go thats the right one.i think steves has been made up with the short pieces from 4 hinges.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:01 am:

After looking at Steve's hinges they look to be the correct one's according to this websites Encyclopedia and reference books such as 'From here to Obscurity'.
If anyone has this book it has a very detailed explanation of the 15-16 and later windshield frames.

When I restored my 21 Touring with the later style hinges I found that I had to get the hinges on the correct side and in the right way to get the overlap like the windshield on my 1919 Runabout. So that could be a reason for less overlap on Steve's windshield.

I have wondered if the shorter half of the later mid 17-22 hinges are the same as the earlier 15-16 hinges. Anybody know?

AND if you look in 'From here to Obscurity' in the windshield explanation section the open 'T's
that are shown
DON'T have the windshield rubber strip on them.
Even Ford's advertising pics (most of them) don't have them either. Go figure????????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:35 am:

Steve,

No rubber, but a rubber piece can be bought that fits...

Here is a '15 that passes muster on any challenges other than the Naugahyde roof that was done pre-1960 and just won't die :-). Sort of a crappy picture but best on I have...the car presently is in a dust bag/under a tarp with windshield folded for the winter so can't get you a fresh pic. See the shadow line of the overlapped glass? (Yeah, I know, it's a shame the splash shield on that passenger side has that deep crease in it...I'd fix it but the other side is dinged just as bad so at least they match :-):-):-) )

The other way you know if you have a real '15 set of hinges and glass and have it mounted correct is to fold it over...if both halves are at the same height, it's a '15...if one glass is higher than the other it is a later frame/hinge set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:43 am:

I put mine on the (21) lower glass. I think it might have worked better on the upper as the air pushes it off the glass. I glued it on but after reading this I am going to change it if the glue starts to let go.
I put it back on after driving without it in a real good rain, with a line of water across the inside of my windshield about 3 1/2 to 4 inches up from the joint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:53 am:

Steve may have all the hinge pieces for a correct pair, or not. There is a way to combine the correct pieces so that both sides line up vertically, or there is another way to assemble them so that the offset is there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 10:57 am:

Kirk -- Yes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 12:34 pm:

Comparing the hinge on my car to the one in Royce's pictures, it's obvious they're different. I don't know what I have, but apparently it's not 1915.



The pictures are from slightly different angles, but looking at the two hinges together you can see that one has no offset and puts the upper and lower glass directly in line, while the other has an offset that puts the upper glass ahead of the lower. One has the adjusting indentations on a flat surface and the other has them on a raised ring. Looks like something else to add to my shopping list.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 01:00 pm:

I might have an extra set Steve. I think yours might be made from two of the short pieces from 1917 - 22.

Will look for them on Tuesday when I am at the garage in Dallas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower - Portland, Oregon on Saturday, March 07, 2015 - 01:39 pm:

Steve - It looks like your hinges have the same problem mine did: both uppers on one side, and both lowers on the other. It's an easy fix to swap them around like this:



The missing brass hinge nuts can be machined easily enough. I can get you the dimensions if you want.

- Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 08:54 pm:

Steve I looked in my pile and found the pair of '15 - '17 hinges. Unfortunately both are lefts. I will bring them to Chickasha, someone out there probably has an extra right one.

Here's a picture of a driver side (on the right) 1915 - 1917 hinge next to one made with two of the short pieces from 1918 - 22 hinges.



Below is the 1918 - 22 hinge parts made to look like a '15 - 17 with one of the extra long pieces next to it. The long pieces provide the L / R handing and forward offset for the later hinges.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 08:59 pm:

royce i have 3 for one side i will look tomorrow to see if left or right.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 10:40 pm:

I also have a bunch of orphans - maybe between all of us, we can get Steve the correct set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 03:24 pm:

royce! mine are all left also.maybe steve will have some right hand ones.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 04:13 pm:

Steve,

I'm also wondering if your glass retainers also are missing the little "dog-leg" step down that is also needed to facilitate the overlap. Hard to tell from your photo. Should be like this:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 05:35 pm:

By golly, I believe I have a couple orphan right sides - fix you right up, Steve. Pay for the small flat rate box and it's yours including the correct brass nut !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 05:39 pm:

May not be the "correct" brass nut but the price is right !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 05:58 pm:

here is a frame i've had for about 40 years, original paint i think. just took it apart a few days before steve posted the question. 1st pic, one end of the mounting flange was stamped offset, only one of the three ends i have, so that allowed me to correctly reassemble it. that being done, it shows the femail, or out side on the bottom frame part. the other hinge i have is the same part, but placed on the upper frame opposite side. the 16 i just sold was the same. so, is there not a right and left, they are just flipped over? last photo shows the mtfca glass book which shows a 1/2 x 1/2 45% cut in each corner, which is the only way the glass will go all the way up into the channel on the caps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 06:00 pm:

for some reason, i can not post a pic? done it many times, but now it wont bring up the browse window! i'll try again


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 06:10 pm:

well gol dangit ! wont let me do it today wonder why?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 06:20 pm:

again,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 06:24 pm:

again,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

well school teacher steve just held class on posting pics and putting the text in order just a few days ago.... and already i failed. surely will get a bad mark at the end of the quarter. now back to the issue here, if you look at EVERY photo in this thread, the female outer part is like this- mounting holes on the south side, pivot point to the west. people are talking "lefts and rights", left side of the car? or pivot facing left? confusing. as pointed out by bruce s. flipped over they are the same. my 16 had them flipped, and functioned just fine. henry trying to cut cost, i dought he would make rights and lefts if they function the same either way. steve has everything except one male 15-16 inner bracket, and needs a new piece of glass. i would guess most glass cutter guys thought its easier to just make one cut a little short and not risk taking a little bite off each corner. we all know what happens when you just want to take a little off a piece of glass!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 01:01 am:

Here's the answer to Jerry's question.


The step-down is there, but the glass doesn't go down to fill it. When I install the correct hinges I'll need to change the glass too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 09:38 am:

looks like the wrong cap on the bottom too. i believe both top and bottom caps have the step.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 09:55 am:

Well, there's another wrinkle. I don't see any bottom cap at all in Martin's photo, but his is a later car. Maybe somebody can post a picture of that part on a 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:07 am:

Huge clue regarding the problem by looking at Steve's last photo.

The part of the hinge with the "cup" should be attached to the lower half of the windshield.

That way, the eyelet for the top strap remains (or should remain) stationary.

The photos of the roadster posted by Royce show incorrectly installed hinges. They are upside down and on the opposite sides of where they should be located.

Steve - the last photo you posted shows that you have passenger side hinges on both sides of the car (at least the "cupped" half of the hinge is passenger side on both sides of the car).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:15 am:

Then again - maybe the hinges on the '15 roadster are installed correctly? I'm comparing them to my '17 roadster where the cup is on the bottom half of the hinge.

At any rate, you either have two passenger side or two driver side cupped halves.

Hope this makes sense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:30 am:

Steve,

To just ask what is 'right' usually comes up with a dozen different answers and consensus wins by default...whether right or wrong until the next time! :-) Even the late Bruce M. promised himself early on that he would be open minded as new info unfolded

My own deduction as to how this forum really works is to maybe state 'what is' as a 'fact' and then let the cat out of the bag...evidence to the contrary then seems to abound :-):-):-)

So with that being said, these pictures are presumably original late '15 hinge showing the glass clips, etc. The windshield was folded back at 45 degrees so keep that in mind as you look...



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:32 am:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:34 am:




So that's it...if it's wrong, I'll apologize but I have reason to suspect it is right


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:42 am:

George's photo shows that both upper and lower caps are stepped, but we cant see the side of the brackets to say which part of the frame is the outer hinge attached to. i still think there is no right and left, just one part was made to be flipped over for the other side. again, every photo here shows the pivot point to the west if you have the mounting holes to the south. is it possible that we all have the same part and no one has one with pivot point east? what does it say in the parts book? i dont have one


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Well Folks - we were so involved with the hinge aspect of Steve's windshield, we all glazed over the fact that it isn't even a true '15 windshield ! A '15 frame would be riveted to the w.s. uprights - not screwed ! Doesn't change the fact the hinges are not in the correct orientation but a fact just the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:50 am:

My mistake - I just looked through the whole thread again - oops !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 12:48 pm:

And now, just to stir the pot a little more, look again at my two pictures posted at 1:01. On the driver's side, the ends of the upper and lower glass line up evenly. On the passenger side, you see that the lower glass is about a half inch wider (longer) than the upper. I'm getting a headache. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 12:55 pm:

thats because the outer hinge, with only the dots for the balls, and not the circulars ring, is a later hinge. the other 3 hinge parts you have i think are correct


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 01:53 pm:

RE: 1:01 photos -

Note that when you compare the passenger hinge to the driver hinge that one is upside down compared to the other, i.e. on the passenger side, the "cupped" part of the hinge is connected to the bottom half of the windshield. On the driver side, the cupped part of the hinge is connected to the top half of the windshield.

That right there explains a lot of what is going on.

As far as the "cupped" parts of the hinges go, you have either two rights or two lefts, not a pair of left and right.

Hope this makes sense. It was what I was trying to communicate at my 11:07 post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Maybe I should stay out of this discussion since I'm basing it on our two 1917 cars…..

Are the left and right 1915 windshield hinges identical simply flipped over instead of having right and left pairs like 17-22? Experts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 02:12 pm:

See part 2.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 02:50 pm:

Here is part 2:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/525076.html?1426184252

The thread within that thread yields better information.

Regardless of the revisions in design design for the 1915, 1916 and early 1917 vs 1917 through 1922 model years, there are distinct lefts and rights, regardless of model year. Considering the upper half of the windshield sits forward of and slightly overlaps the lower half, merely flipping identical hinges would not be feasible.


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