Dual plug distributor conversion And Ross steering box update

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Dual plug distributor conversion And Ross steering box update
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, March 08, 2015 - 10:02 pm:

This mornings "fun"






And the Onan coil I plan to use


Ross steering box; I am getting prices from a CNC shop I use to do the production machining. I should have firm prices by Wednesday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Hagen on Monday, March 09, 2015 - 10:28 pm:

I will have to get a job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, March 09, 2015 - 11:02 pm:

I'm also machining the second Ross box with a number of minor dimensional "adjustments ". All part of "product development "!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Monday, March 09, 2015 - 11:25 pm:

Les, Is there 2 rotor points that are 180 degree,s apart? Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, March 09, 2015 - 11:53 pm:

Scott
No. The Onan coil should make that unnecessary. If it doesn't work out then adding a second set of points won't be that difficult. Another option is two "Pertronix" units working from one Pertronix rotor. Hopefully the Onan coil will do the job. I don't know of anyone who has tried it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 12:32 am:

If you want both spark plugs to fire at the same time one set of points or one Petronix unit is all that is required to fire both coils at the same time. Or both banks of a double coil.
A second set of points would be more likely to fire at least one coil while cranking the engine over with the starter and getting spark in the cylinders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Bergmann Sydney - Australia on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 04:08 am:

Les
I wish my mornings fun produced such craftsmanship. Well done. I had the same idea of crafting a dual coil cap and rotor to an existing distributor about 5 years ago, but you have done it in a morning. I also had the idea of using a single dual output coil, but from a V6 Holden.
I spoke to an auto electrician and he said the coil would destroy the points, so finding a twin coil fired by points is a great thing.
A site you may want to look at is http://www.kirkengines.com
They have a very affordable point saver ignition module designed to fire Onan or Kohler dual output coils.
They even have a 6 volt + earth point saver module that works on Model A's.
Interesting other topics discussed also. Hope this project works for you as it will undoubtedly benefit others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 10:17 am:

Tom
Thank you for the link. The "point saver" looks like a really good option. A distinct advantage over a Pertronix is that if a Pertronix quits on the road,you are stuck without a replacement part. With the "point saver", you can just disconnect it and you are running again and it should at least get you home


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 09:34 am:

Hey Les have you made any more progress on the steering or the dual plug distributor?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 10:30 am:

Seth
I have not done any more on the dual plug as I have been focusing on the steering boxes. Here is where I am at.
1. I expect to be able to post pictures of the Ross solution to the frame brace by tonight. I think it is a pretty slick idea that they came up with.
2. I have decided to make them to couple to the existing steering box shaft. As most of the '26-7 shafts are worn out at the bottom, and this is the part that would need to be cut off, then no loss. Further it will reduce shipping costs. Yes, it will probably need to have a keyway cut in it, but that shouldn't be a big problem for the customer to have done locally
3. At the top of the column the plan is to remove the three little gears and I am having a "lockup plate" being laser cut to drop over the pins and the stock T sun gear will just plug into it. Thank you Dan McEachern for the dxf. file of the sun gears!!!
4. Drag link; I am using Ford '28-34 tie rod ends and I will make a custom length tube to connect them (with RH and LH thread). These ends are readily available for a good price, so I will not personally supply them.
5. The one thing I have not made a decision on yet is the connection of the steering box to the steering shaft. Ross used a solid sleeve coupling. These days most cars use some type of U-joint and I need to spend some time evaluating what is available. It would probably simplify things for speedster builders and could help to keep costs down.
If I can avoid custom making things myself it helps to keep costs down


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 10:39 am:

Seth
And one more thing, I have decided to also make the '25 and earlier version and have started to make the new pattern it will require


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 11:12 am:

From the another Les,

I'm firing two plugs/cylinder in our 1910 2 cylinder REO. Using ACCEL Harley M/C coils (140407) & hall effect/magnetic pick up inside the timer. Have a special circuit board with back up in the coil box. A clean set up. I was using points, but they proved more difficult to adjust and would contaminate easily with oil. 1 & 2 cylinder REO's have brass port plugs where the spark plug is normally located. Very easy to add the second spark plug.
A small rare earth magnet is pressed in an aluminum disk which is attached to the camshaft inside the timer. As the magnet passes the hall effect it fires the circuit...similar to the Petronix system.

A very good friend (Electronic Engineer) built the set up for my REO. He has a model T and has designed/made a similar system that fires one plug/cylinder and goes inside the model T timer. His system fires four Honda coils mounted inside the coil box. It all looks "Stock" from the outside and is working great. So far, it has been very reliable and trouble free.

If you get back in town (Visiting Art) and are interested, it would be fun for all of us to get together and exchange ideas.

Another Les who sometimes get's on the dark side....Smile!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 11:17 am:

From another Les,

I'm firing two plugs/cylinder in our 1910 2 cylinder REO. Using ACCEL Harley M/C coils (140407) & hall effect/magnetic pick up inside the timer. Have a special circuit board with back up in the coil box. A clean set up. I was using points, but they proved more difficult to adjust and would contaminate easily with oil. 1 & 2 cylinder REO's have brass port plugs where the spark plug is normally located. Very easy to add the second spark plug.
A small rare earth magnet is pressed in an aluminum disk which is attached to the camshaft inside the timer. As the magnet passes the hall effect it fires the circuit...similar to the Petronix system.

A very good friend (Electronic Engineer) built the set up for my REO. He has a model T and has designed/made a similar system that fires one plug/cylinder and goes inside the model T timer. His system fires four Honda coils mounted inside the coil box. It all looks "Stock" from the outside and is working great. So far, it has been very reliable and trouble free.

If you get back in town (Visiting Art) and are interested, it would be fun for all of us to get together and exchange ideas.

Another Les who sometimes get's on the dark side....Smile!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 12:02 pm:

Awesome - what's the difference between the 26/27 version and the 25 and earlier versions?

I looked at the pictures of the steering box and is there or will there be a place for the spark and throttle rods?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 03:25 pm:

Seth
Ford relocated the bolt holes (significantly!!). Also the '26-7 version is located about a inch closer to the frame and is sloped down about 5 degrees. Yes, they both have places for the spark and throttle rods.

Les V
Thank you for the information on what you have had success with. Going "electronic" has certainly crossed my mind. I am sure that sometime in the next year I will be passing by, so it would be fun to get together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 05:17 pm:

Les,
My friend designed and built an electronic ignition system in 1978 that provides multi spark like the model T coils. I ran that system in my 2 cylinder REO up until last year. The only problem I had was with the points. With electronic ignition, very little current flows thru the points and with the REO's lost oiling system...that was the weak link. The latest system I'm using does away with the points and now fires two plugs/cylinder. The electronic timer was much easier to set (180 deg.From Each Cylinder) using a scope. Also, the new system does not care if I is covered in oil. There are no wear areas that can change timing as with points.
I sent you a private message...enjoy!


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