I found a can, and I just had to open it!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: I found a can, and I just had to open it!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

You know went you find a can, and you just have to open it! Well I did, and today I stuck my finger in it, and found worms!

Well I had removed the T strips down the back of my '27 Coupe, so that I could replace the rain gutters, and replace the quarter corner. I was cleaning the where the T strip sits, and I found a hole in the belt line. Yep, covered with more bondo!, which ended with the end of the belt line missing. The P.O. had tried to braze it up, but made it worst, and covered it up instead. I put light heat to it, and scraped the mud off, and off, wow, now I have a bigger hole above it!

So I decided to get behind it and see, what I had to do to fix it. Oh hell, I'll just remove the whole top part, that can't be that much more work. Ya, right. Anyone that has removed the top knows what I all went through, but I got it off, clean, and now will fix it right, put it back on, and be back to where I was cleaning the crud off from under the T strip!

I have gone backwards so much, but I can see the improvements I have made, to this body.

Does anyone have the metal framing, that goes on the inside, around the back window, that they don't need? I don't really need, the whole center panel. I had just temporarily, had installed them in the quarter windows, before I tore the top off.

Pat





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 10:25 am:

Pat:

What are you using for rain gutters on the coupe? Are replacement gutters available?

Thanks, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 10:32 am:

I know how you feel Pat that is why the "Turtle" came off my roadster thing was the assembly was about 30 pounds lighter when I got it back from the media blasters, now I need to get some Argon and fire up the TIG.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 09:02 pm:

jb,
I had bought used quarters, and a cowl, A pillars & header panel for replacement parts, to fix my coupe. I believe it was a improved '27 coupe. The rain gutters are a lot stronger then the ones I pulled out. They do sell replacement ones, Howell's sells just the gutter part(they are two piece) for $145.00.

To remove them you have to remove the lower rear panel, remove the rear window panel (to remove the T strips), drill the rivets out, to remove the T strips. Then drill, or grind out the spot welds, as you find them, and then you can get the gutters out. They are on the back side of the quarter panel lip.

Mine looked good, they were mangled from the top of the rear panel down, and missing the bottoms. You may find that the rear sub-frame is quit rusted. the rain runs down the gutters, and drops on to it, and runs out a hole, and along the rear sub-frame, and rear panel. Bad design.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 09:39 pm:

Thanks, Pat.

Your description reinforces my decision to leave in place what is solid and add pipe? [essentially, downspout extensions] to the lower ends of gutter to 'pipe' the water out of the trunk area.

Status of original rusted metal: Rear panel lower 70% missing, 'T' strips restorable, lower 4" both rear corners of body missing, cross member 50% missing, gutters terminate at surface of (60% missing)trunk floor. Replacement cross-member framing, body metal and rear panel all fabricated, just now deciding if the gutter extensions are next step or if I wait & braze/weld some 1 " diameter curved electrical conduit on end of existing gutters after the panel and sub-frame are reinstalled.

Do you by chance have a pic or reference to a photo of the spare tire carrier reinforcement inside the rear trunk panel that the tire carrier spider and spider hub assembly bolts to? My carrier hub had three bolts through the body panel and into the reinforcing frame inside the trunk. The lower half of that inside piece was rusted away along with the adjacent rear panel sheet metal and cross-member.

Sincerely, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 11:10 am:

James,
I feel your pain! My car was just a empty body, that was going to be a hot rod, that never happened. The guy that owned it, made it look good on the surface, and didn't care about the rest.

I had sold my stripped quarters to a guy doing the same thing we are. I just boxed up the T strips, and the old rain gutters, to ship to him. The gutters are easy to repair when they are out. The problem is getting them out. I am also replacing the quarter corners, rear panel, and fixing the rear sub-frame. I don't have a trunk floor, so I guess I'm not fixing that, just putting one in. In fact, I didn't have any cross braces for the floor, It had 1x2" tubing welded in for them. I have removed those, and got the right ones. Their in, but I still have to get all my rivets yet. A lot of rivets, almost all rivets used in the car! Then I get to think about getting seat parts! It's a good thing I enjoy don't this. I am truly bring a body back from the dead. I don't know of anyone that would go through all the work I am, to fix a complete body like this.

I think you'll need to install the sub-frame, then fix you gutters. You'll need to fix the rear panel side brackets also, that go inside of the rear panel, which is riveted on at the top, to the top cross brace, which is riveted to the center/spare tire bracket brace, which is riveted to the sub-framing. You will need the get the bolts back in the sides, of the rear panel last.

The center brace/spare tie mount bracket, on mine was rusted of also. I just bent a piece of metal the same thickness and welded to the bottom after I cut the bad 2 1/2" part off. The bottom part is flat, and not curved like the top 2/3's is.
I don't have any good pictures of it from the outside, but I have a couple.

I do have a picture (borrowed picture) of the trunk side of one, that has four holes in it. I believe that the bottom holes are in the same place, the top hole on yours will be in the center on a bracket riveted to it. Same as mine.

Pat









Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:11 pm:

Pat:

60,000 words worth of value here, thanks so much!!

Did the rain gutters just end at the point shown in the third pic? And water was left to find its way out between the cross member and rear panel skin? If so, I too am disappointed in Henry's design.

How much does the skin panel bow out at the lower edge relative to the panel ends at the 'T irons'? I guessed 1/4" but can easily change it. It appears the rear body cross member may be straight along the rear edge, and the spare tire reinforcement piece in the last pic pushes the panel outward at the center near bottom to form the crown in the rear panel?

I sincerely appreciate your help,

jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:55 pm:

James,
Pretty much, yep!
I just ran out and took a couple of pictures of the end, of one my replacement ones for you. They are much heavier duty also, then the ones I removed.

The rear panel at the bottom, is flat from side to side, no bow. There is a bow that the top of the rear panel. I had to add a 1/4 inch to each end of my top cross brace, because some dip stick shortened them by a 1/4 inch each, why, he must have been bored! but I had a 1 3/4 - 2" block under the other end of it, when I clamped it to the bench to weld. Just to give you an idea of how much bow mine had to it. It matched the trunk lid also, when I held it to it.

Pat



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 09:21 pm:

Pat:

Thanks for the added info. Much heavier and much less rusty than my '26. I'm getting a real photo album going here.

Best to you,


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