I found a motor today and bought it. #3313792. I believe it is a 1919, and has a starter. I am just wondering if there is anything unusual that I should know about it. Or should look for.
Thank you, Paul in Tacoma WA
It is a 1919. Can you read the casting date as well?
The official date of that number is Monday, August 18, 1919. I say "official" because the actual date may be somewhat later. See Hap Tucker's explanation here. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/517565.html?1423792688
That date puts the engine early in the 1920 model year, which begins August 1, 1919. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG90.html
In mid 1919 motors were going from the foundry to the machine shop in just a few days.
The motor in my 1919 hack was numbered 38,102 before yours -
My block was cast on July 28, 1919 and it became motor number 3275690 on July 30th. (Henry Ford’s Birthday)
It barely had time to cool before being machined!
Since it is a hack it was probably sold as a bare chassis with the body being installed in either Mifflinburg Pa or a dealer in Mass. and it has blanking plates for the starter and generator.
I have the first registration (Mass) which is dated Sept 9, 1919.
So the time between the motor being numbered and the vehicle being on the road was the month of August and a few days.
Where is the casting date located?
On the block to the right of the motor number.
It looks like an analog clock
I think it also can look like a digital watch but am not sure.
Steve -- thanks for adding that "clarification" for me. I'm looking for a short way and/or better way to say, "Serial numbers from Jan 1915 to end of production are from daily log books of the engine assembly department of the Ford Motor Company USA. If the engine was assembled at the main production plant [Highland Park and later River Rouge -- and the plant that had the master serial number list] it is the date the engine was assembled. If the engine was assembled at a branch plant, the serial number would be stamped on the completed engine & transmission assembly days or weeks later [ref page 501 of Bruce McCalley (R.I.P.) -- or months later in the case of 15,000 serial numbers sent to Manchester, England at a time ) ref pages 527, 528,530 etc.]. For cars & trucks assembled at the main Highland Park plant, it was possible for the engine to be produced and assembled into a car the same day. But for cars assembled at branch plants (to include Highland Park once the engine production moved to the River Rouge and engines were transported from The River Rouge to Highland Park) the car would normally have been assembled on a later day, week, or month. That also would apply to engines assembled late in the day at the main plant and which would not have been installed into a chassis at the main plant until the next day.”
Paul – I hope your rewooding project is coming along.
Fred – your Mifflinburg depot hack and other cars similar to it that have a known registration date – can be helpful to us for figuring out how long between the entry in the engine log records and the delivery of the car. I would think the chassis would have come from the branch plant closest to where the after market body was added. We do not have the branch plant vs main plant production numbers for 1919. But for calendar year 1921 we do. Of the 928,750 USA produced Model Ts and TTs and chassis only 88,173 were assembled at the main Highland Park plant. And of the 8,269 non-start car chassis – 530 were produced at Highland Park. For the starter chassis – 8,578 of the 13,777 total were produced at Highland Park. [Ref page 463 Bruce McCalley, “Model T Ford”.)
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HAP: Rewooding is coming along. Sills are about done and will joint them together soon. Slow but sure. I am using clear fir.
My casting date is July 18, 1919, as near as I can tell. Also, just forward of the serial number, in the casting is: 5 W. Any idea what that means?
Gathering information about our Model T's is like being a detective.
In my case we have the paperwork with dates that shows lineage from the first owner to myself.
The only thing I am missing is what happened between July 30, 1919 when it got the motor number and Sept 9, 1919 when it was registered in Mass.
I know a little about the first owner Mr McQuillen, more about the second Earnest Alm, and a lot about my dad.
The second owner's family sent me a few pictures of the car in the late 40's and few years ago I let his grandson drive it.
I continue to be amazed at how much information there is about my 1919 hack and appreciate all the work Bruce did for the hobby.
I also commend you on the work you are doing to fill in the gaps.
Paul -- if I read things correctly, your block was cast before mine and made into a motor on Aug 18.
At least it had time to cool down!
There was nothing close about the dates on branch plant engines in 1919 it seems. Mine was cast Apr 1st but the numbers weren't even sent to the New York plant for nearly two months on May 24th. Perhaps being an April Fools Day casting, the block was made with only 3 cylinders and took a lot longer to machine.
For Paul – you commented and asked: “Also, just forward of the serial number, in the casting is: 5 W. Any idea what that means?” The 5 W” Many Ford engine blocks have some numbers or letters there. We believe those are the identifying marks for the individual molds. That way if some engine blocks were coming out with a casting defect they could track down which mold needed to be repaired or replaced.
For Fred – thank you for the kind words. So many folks are helping to capture and make available information about the early Fords. Through e-mails, web sites, forums, archives that are being digitized etc. we are gaining access to information that previously we could see if we visited the archive, museum, garage, etc. I believe the technology and more importantly the many helpful people will enable us to fill in some of the missing information. It will allow us to better document and confirm, correct, or offer possible other “guesses” on some items. And I believe it will help us to gain a better understanding of how the early 1903-1927 Fords were assembled. In some cases we may even be able to provide additional information about individual cars. It won’t be on the scale of solving world peace etc. but it is something many of us enjoy researching and learning with others more of the history about how our cars were likely produced.
For Dave -- You commented, “There was nothing close about the dates on branch plant engines in 1919 it seems. Mine was cast Apr 1st but the numbers weren't even sent to the New York plant for nearly two months on May 24th….” On page 521 of Bruce McCalley’s (R.I.P.) book “Model T Ford” under the engine serial numbers taken from the daily log books of the engine assembly department (USA – ref page 501) he has listed serial number 3,125,801 to 3,126,000 as 200 to Long Island. Does your engine serial number fall in that range, and that is why you commented about the branch plant? Or did it fall in the wider 3,124,672 to 3,125,800 or 3,126,001 to 3,127,606 that bracket the Long Island numbers on the same May 24 date? I would really like to know if your engine is in the 200 serial numbers [not engines but serial numbers] sent to the Long Island branch that day.
I also wonder if all the Long Island engines were Right Hand drive as the column head might suggest, or if that is just what they lined up with to allow room for the comment?
Again, thank you to everyone for reading, contributing, offering suggestions, on the forum and for keeping our hobby fun for the garage, the road, the Dairy Queen (kids usually like Model T rides to get an ice-cream cone) and the forum.
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Hap, yes my engine number falls right in the middle of that group of 200 engines for Long Island. I'm not sure what you mean regarding your "right hand drive" comment. Can you explain further?