A new member of the club mentioned the other day that he was loosing low bands and had found a crack in the low speed drum.. In my ignorance I said I could fix that.... I didn't realise what a motor it was....
It is a RJJO, with 12 volts, starter, alternator, water pump and a mass of wires. It will be awful to work on. Look at the pump.
I should have gone to Chickasha!
I hope he expects to pay you? If he doesn't, I would be telling him it's time for him to learn to fix it himself.
It has an oil pump where the generator should be on a later model. It has a pipe running up from what looks like the input to the pump, could this be for priming?
You can see it in the upper picture under the distributor cap.
Here is the cracked drum.
The stand pipe may well be for priming. That looks a lot like a Datsun B210 oil pump. I have one on my speedster and it has been trouble free with no loss of prime.
I hope he's paying for your services or at least helping out and learning in the process. I'd treat it like any other motor I wasn't intimately familiar with and take some photos in the process and mark all the electrical and other connections as I take them apart. Under the extra stuff, it's just a T motor. With the project really just transmission work, I'd leave as much of the motor intact as I could to limit the "opportunities" on reassembly.
I have confidence that you can replace that drum, Tony. However, getting to it, could be difficult! Be very careful to document the engine and how everything goes together. Good luck.
Just put some super glue in the crack. It should hold at least until the crankshaft breaks.
Actually there is a spacer between the pan and the inspection cover so it could well be an A crank. I don't want to know!!!
Hey Tony, Well I AM at Chickasha. Curled up in my truck. It's raining and I can't sleep.
I wouldn't know where to begin, other than towards the door!! Good luck!
The best part of this repair job would be the test drive when the engine is back in place
Roger has it. Keep your eyes on the prize Tony - I bet that thing will SCOOT.
I think all the bolts, wire and other bits are out of the way and will try to pull it Thursday afternoon. One question, the sump has been modified with a large round thing on the right side. Any ideas what it is and what I'll find inside?
I guess it is part of the oil pressure system, but the filter and pump are up near the front....
LOL whoa. There's a LOT of stuff going on with this engine. No idea what's inside that crazy round thing but this thread sure is fun! Just keep calm and act like this is what every T motor looks like. =)
Maybe a round screen oil filter?
Lots of opportunity to learn on that engine, keep us posted!
"Any ideas what I will find inside"... OIL Tony OIL
Well Dennis you were correct, nothing in there but OIL.
I guess it is used as the feed to the oil pump and the ring gear may throw oil in that direction. I now have the pan off, quite complex as there are four oil pipes that have to be undone before the pan can be separated from the block. Going to be difficult to re-install with those hard lines.
The engine is quite well built, it uses a Scat crank but with longer throws and bigger bearings, looks very solid. the oil is full pressure with a drilled crnk. The holes are sealed with allen screws.
I found several broken clutch disks and a couple trapped in the front end of the brake drum. In the picture below you can see that the ribs do not go all the way to the bottom of the brake drum allowing a couple of the disks not to rotate with the drum.
Anyone seen anything like this before?
Looks like an early brake drum without the spacer on the bottom. The clutch plates have gotten stuck under the lugs. If your plan is to keep and use that drum you need to get the spacer and maybe a set of new disks.
If it were me I would get one of the new 1925 and earlier brake drums with the caps on the lugs and maybe use the Turbo 400 setup.
The low speed drum had two cracks and broke apart as I removed the rivets. Then I looked very carefully, in bright sunlight, there is a crack across the brake drum..... At least that will solve the need for a spacer, which I just bought from Bob Berstadt. It can be saved for the next one.
Make sure the new drums are balanced before installing them in that engine. What band linings are you going to use? Kevlar is great if you do not slip the bands much.....new model T drivers do not realize the damage caused when letting the bands slip too much. Wood grabs much better and may be the best choice for an un-seasoned driver.
Suggest replacing the leaking water pump with a Texas T pump....The one on my car has not leaked in 10 yrs. of use. Has modern bearings/seals and stainless shaft/impeller. No adjustments required.
The RAJO is four valve....works well with high compression domed pistons. I know you do not think much of using a water pump....however, that engine needs it.
A lot of work/$$$'s went in to that engine.
If the low and brake drum are cracked you need to look close at the reverse drum, good chance it's cracked too. Does the car have outside brakes or is relying on just the transmission brake? With the extra HP and faster driving the owner might think about the "NEW" brake/clutch drum with the shoes on the lugs and maybe the Turbo 400 clutch setup.
I initially installed a "Turbo" clutch in my BB RAJO, full length A crank engine - too much H.P. it seemed to positively lock up the clutches - never could get it adjusted to not slip. Installed a stock steel clutch pack (on advice from a high H.P. knowledgeable guy) - cured all slippage issues.
Thanks Steve good info.
I have been advised to use the steel disks on a high horse power engine and a new clutch spring.
I have checked the reverse drum quite carefully and can see no cracks....
Tony - have the reverse drum magnafluxed (sp) - visual just doesn't cut it. Immerse the drum completely in solvent then lay out to dry - the cracks will hold the solvent and one can see the cracks.
I took the brake drum and the reverse drum to the machine shop to have them cleaned and magnafluxed.
Does anyone know if Dave Nolting still makes new drums? I have sent an email and two phone calls, so far with no response.
I have just received a response from Dave, the prices in the Vintage Ford are current, once I know what I need after the magnaflux results and separate the gears, I will place my order.
Its moving forward....
Tony, I had the pleasure of buying a drum from Dave. If you can send him your shaft or gear, he has all of the right fixtures to get the two mated correctly with minimal runout or risk of damaging the parts when riveting. The drums are beautiful, every surface is machined, and machined well. Dave went out of his way to answer my questions even after I had the drum sitting in a box for over a year.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. For the amount of work involved in these drums, we are fortunate that Dave makes them at such a reasonable cost.
The brake and reverse drums did not show any cracks during the magnaflux process, the low gear is now boxed and will be shipped to Dave on Wednesday.
Just like to thank everyone for the advise and support
I believe the round thing on the side of the oil pan is the fremulator.
The thing on the crankcase is what Fred Hoss called a stilling well. It provides a place for the oil pump pickup to get oil that is less churned up and aerated by the flywheel.
Factually Eric is correct, but I like Steve's Fremulator.