How do I adjust these valves and what do I have?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: How do I adjust these valves and what do I have?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 12:51 pm:

I decided to adjust my valves for the first time. Like a moron, I blindly ordered the thin, triple wrench set from Lang's without knowing what I had. I removed the head and the valve covers to find I have two nut adjusters and they take a larger 1/2 " wrench. I do know how to position the cam to check them and the clearance to use. Would anyone know what setup I have and how they adjust? It seems simple but, I thought I should ask before I cause trouble for myself. Thanks. Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Wetherbee - Downeast Maine on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:02 pm:

I may be wrong, but it looks like the valve is threaded not the lifter. If that is the case it must be a home-made setup - as for adjusting I'd recommend the KRW tool to set them by cam to piston travel relation where the clearance is "zero" - but I'm not sure how that would be accomplished with what you have there


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:09 pm:

Dave those nuts seem oddly large. Maybe take a couple more pictures but it looks like you have a LOT of funkiness going on. Those look like washers . . . not spring seats. Did you take the valve keepers out already? That one on the far right is like the head of the bolt from the lifter is up inside the spring. I don't want to throw any confusion in but it's like you have unusually short valves. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong. The other 2 valves I can see the shiny from the shaft of the valve just barely coming down from the valve guide. Maybe pull a valve out and show it to us with a tape measure beside it, as well as removing a spring keeper and spring and taking a picture of it as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:22 pm:

Oh great. Just what I need, an odd setup. I thought it looked strange which is why I'm afraid to touch it. The engine appears have had an early 1960s rebuild. It has Jahns pistons. Everything is in fine shape and it runs well. I just want to make it a bit quieter. The nuts are large. They take 1/2 inch wrenches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:24 pm:

LOL it's okay Dave! You're in good hands. We can help. Is it like I asked and the bolt coming up from the lifter is up inside the spring?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:33 pm:

The lifters were put out with big nuts like that for a while, as the maker ran out for a place to make them the thin hardened ones.

Some even had soft bolts for a while.

I would check that, and maybe replace them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:36 pm:

They look like modern valves, with split keepers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Ok, I went out for a closer look and more pics. Through the springs, I can see and feel threads all the way up. Seems pretty simple. I think the bottom nut is the adjuster and the top one is the locknut. Right now, the center pistons are up and the end ones are down. I checked the clearance on the exhaust valves of cylinders one and four. Clearance was an amazing .030 as you can see on the right of each photo. Thanks for all your amazing help so far. Looking forward to hearing more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:17 pm:

I see what is going on now. It's upside down. Those are stock, non-adjustable lifters. Your valves are threaded. That is definitely not stock. Is there a place on the valve shaft to put a wrench to keep the valve from spinning?

I'm also a bit confused - normally in order for this setup to work I would think you need the lock nut against the shaft of the valve - not the end of the bolt. Maybe the shaft is pinched a bit so that it works like a the 2 wrench lifters. I'm not sure. I thought those looked like washers and not spring seats, they're definitely washers. Pretty slick fix honestly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:22 pm:

They are certainly unique! Sounds like they have been working fine, I say adjust them and keep running them! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:29 pm:

Agree with Mark. The best part about having your valves set up this way is that you can adjust them and then check the measurement without having to crank the engine over. Yours will adjust much faster than most folks who have to check the clearance, crank 720*, make an adjustment, crank 720* again, re-check for new clearance, then repeat that process until the clearance is right for each valve.

You should be able to get the crank in the right place to measure the clearance and then adjust that same valve. No need to crank until you move on to the next valve.

The only drawback I can see to this setup is that it is not very easy to remove one of your valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:33 pm:

Wow guys, I'm impressed that you think I have something slick and mysterious. I'm not about to let you down here. I'm going to take one of these apart for all to see. First I have to grind one wrench slightly thinner and then we can see what makes it tick, (literally). Thanks again. Back in an hour. Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:35 pm:

So Dave are these two piece valves? This may be the time to update the valve train. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:50 pm:

Scott, they don't have the two dimples on the heads that the stock valves have. That's all I know so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:52 pm:

Hi Dave,

You may have some thing like this NOS set which I have:






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 03:47 pm:

Ok, here we go. Bill, my setup is similar to yours but a bit different. It has a one piece threaded valve, a proper valve seat and a shoulder above the threads to stop the seat. The taller of the two nuts has a blind hole and rests on the lifter. Also, I did lift up the lifter and it has a hole drilled across it. I haven't had a moment yet to ponder the reason for it. It all appears to be commercially made. These parts were easily removed using only two wrenches. Adjustment will be too easy.What do you guys think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 03:59 pm:

The hole in the lifter is for inserting a small pin/nail to keep the lifter up when changing the cam or cam bearings out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 04:04 pm:

They certainly doesn't look home-made, maybe some accessory valve setup. I suspect the hole in the lifter is for inserting a pin to hold the lifter up for cam removal (some people just use clothes pins clamped around the lifter body).

I can't figure out how the valve is kept from spinning when you're trying to turn the adjusting and lock nuts, are there flats on the valve stem somewhere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 04:05 pm:

The only thing I see wrong with that set up is the spring, it looks to be cut to shorten, if you use them make sure that the cut end is on the block side so you have less chance of the valve dancing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 04:19 pm:

Dave, Is that valve bent? Other than that I would run them. scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 04:21 pm:

I found that once loosened, the locknut and adjuster turned easily by hand which prevented the valve from turning. To remove the valve, I backed off the adjuster (bottom nut) then lifted the spring seat with my wrench and turned the valve head by hand until it unscrewed. Seems like such a simple setup. I wonder I should set the clearance at? .010, .012 , .015?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 04:25 pm:

Not bent at all. Sure looks like it in the picture though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 10:18 pm:

Final update. I checked the valve clearances. Most were pretty good and some were excellent. I did find two that were at .030 which makes sense because the engine did sound like it had two loose ones. I set them all at .012 and it was easy once I got the hang of it . Should make for a nice quiet engine. Thanks for all the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Thursday, March 19, 2015 - 05:46 am:

Dave

I wish I had seen this thread sooner. I hope you end up with what you're shooting for, but a quieter engine may not be the best performing engine. Unless you know that you have a new cam and what the designer intended for a gap, you're best off setting the valves for synchronization with piston position, not consistent/close gap to the lifters. The details of this method are described in the Ford Manual known as "T-1" in dealer catalogues


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Thursday, March 19, 2015 - 11:45 am:

Scott, right now I just want the car to run quietly. It's already fast enough. I might experiment with it later though now that I see how easy the adjustment is.


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