New '27 project engine and a couple questions...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: New '27 project engine and a couple questions...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 01:22 am:

I acquired this a couple weeks ago and plan to build up a semi-hot engine for my '24 speedster.

It was given to the 80 year old vendor by his uncle in the 1970s. Story was the engine was mounted on a sleigh, hauled into the woods in winter and used to power a buzz saw (interesting home-made pulley on the drive end).

No pistons, rods or valves in the front two cylinders (economy measure?), drums look real good, still had oil in the crankcase and turns over easy, no bands, Holley carb, custom starter-post insulator, one pan ear busted off, came with a real nice round gas tank and spare NH swayback. The coil box needs a bit of tidying.

The block is 1927 but the hogshead, transmission and, I presume, pan are all earlier.

My questions:

Will a 26-27 hogshead fit on this pan and be otherwise compatible (pedals, etc)? I am not too concerned about replacing the transmission with a later unit because these drums look good so far and I will have auxiliary F & R brakes.

Assuming this pan is otherwise good, is replacing the broken pan ear with one from a junk pan the best approach?

Despite appearances, it went in with 2" to spare:


RH side, I think the oil filler cap was made from a carb float:


Reversed water inlet, cutoff reverse pedal, custom starter insulator:


Belt drive pulley:


Drums surface rust only, no visible cracks:


Canadian engine, probably May 03 or 04, 1927:


Destined for this car eventually:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 01:32 am:

I would think you would also want to replace the hogshead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 02:43 am:

If you use the late ('26/'27) hogshead, (and use the transmission brake) you MUST use the wide ('26/'27) brake drum inside, otherwise the offset on the brake pedal shaft won't line up over the drum well enough. You also would have to use a four-dip pan, or bump out the three-dip pan enough for the brake band to have room enough to work (a wide drum will fit in the earlier pan, but not the band).
If you eliminate the transmission brake completely by using a pedal operated rear wheel service brake, you can use almost any combination of drum, pan, and hogshead parts.

It looks like a low head?
Also looks like a good find for an engine to build up!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 05:23 am:

I concur on Wayne"s comments. Replacing a pan arm is "medium difficult ". A late production 3 dip pan should be easy to find,and they ALL need to be checked for straight!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 03:54 pm:

Thank you Wayne and Les


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 07:38 pm:

Chris -- If you plan to use the '26-7 hogshead and brake, you'll need a 4-dip pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

Thanks Mike I figured Les meant to say four-dip, but judging from his very late (or very early) post time that he was short on sleep and uncharacteristically confused!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 09:02 pm:

Chris, that broken pan ear is the best one to have. A very satisfactory repair can be made with ease. You need a donor piece from a junk pan, cut to suit the missing piece. This I would mig weld to the pan arm, having first V'ed out the join so you get maximum penetration.

Then I would add a strengthening piece each side of the ear. I have bent two pieces of 5/16" [or maybe 3/8"] rod at right angles and fitted them into the grooves on the underside of the ear. These are then welded in place. These strengthening pieces cannot be seen when the motor is in the car.

Because any heat created in this fix is isolated from the body of the pan, there is little likelihood of warpage to the pan. The usual checks should still be made on a pan jig, just to be sure.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 10:58 pm:

The brass carb is correct for a 13.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 02:52 am:

By welding a shaped piece of steel to mend pans i have never had to find a donor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Monday, March 23, 2015 - 10:26 am:

Thanks Allan, Les and Kep for your comments. I wonder if the Holley carb would be preferable to my Simmons Superpower besides the more interesting appearance?

Allan, I was thinking along the same line of repairing this pan arm. Sounds like a much easier job and equally satisfactory results.

In that vein, I would very much like to use the current pan and transmission if they both check out OK and avoid spending time and money chasing after '26-27 parts. I've looked at a lot of used drums for past projects to find good replacements if these drums are as good as they look I want to use them!

Besides a larger brake drum the obvious big advantage to the '26-27 setup is the more rigid block/pan assembly. I fancy using brackets to affix the earlier hogshead to my later block photo below. Brackets would be bolted to the hogshead (maybe also thread the hogshead) with shallow-head bolts as required for clearance. A bit of brazing between brackets and hogshead would ensure permanence. It won't look stock but be fine for a speedster.

Comments pro or con? Anyone out there done something like this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, March 23, 2015 - 11:03 am:

I think that bracket looks great, and it's in keeping with the make-it-yourself mindset of Speedsters. As long as the magnets clear the bolts, you're good to go. Since you're using thin-head bolts, you apparently have already addressed that.

The Holley G carb is a good one for all-around driving, and you're correct that it looks way more cool than the Simmons. But the Simmons is more free-flowing, and it will help in the higher rpm range. I put a brass G on my Coupelet, because that's what came on it. But I use a Simmons on my driver.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, March 23, 2015 - 01:13 pm:

Chris,

Why not look into two brackets, or one U-shaped bracket, that makes use of the upper two trans cover screws? No extra holes needed that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, March 23, 2015 - 04:42 pm:

Like the bracket idea.


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