Engine Block or Boat Anchor?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Engine Block or Boat Anchor?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 06:33 pm:

The bad luck engine adventures of Matt continue.... I have some money in this block. 26/27, I have the serial number just haven't looked up the exact date. The engine was bored .040 over. Had a valve job where the valve machine had a bit of wobble or run out on 2 of the valve guides. You can see it in the pictures. Also after having the block boiled and magnafluxed, a 1/8 hole was discovered in the water jacket near the number one cylinder. I have a pop rivet stub in the hole to show location and size. I'm told people plug with jb weld, and have no problems, others properly weld or braze then closed. The block is boiled, bored, and pretty nice as far as threads with little rust 'scarring' due to age. The valve guides need machine work as well as the weep hole. The babbit was removed and new babbit was to be poured. Is this block worth anything to anyone, or is it a good candidate to hold my boat in place in the summer? I'd like to start re-couping some of my losses and remembered I have this unfortunate, once promising block being built. I have no idea if anyone would be interested in this. Seems like it can be repaired, just not by me....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

If you don't want the block I will take it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 06:52 pm:

I'm hoping to sell it. As much as I would love to be in a position to give things away, finances aren't good lately... What is it worth as is? What is it worth if I invest $ to repair the valve slop and water hole?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 06:55 pm:

I would plug the hole with JB Weld and never think about it again. The valve seats need to be repaired with inserts - a typical need for nearly every T block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 07:06 pm:

I too think JB Weld would work for that small hole. The valve guides need to be reamed, and some might need a sleeve installed. That's certainly not reason enough to junk an otherwise good block.

I'm not so sure it needs valve seats. Have the block decked to true up its surface, then re-cut the seats (after the guides are done, this time). Then I think you'll be good to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 07:23 pm:

Matt. That block does not sound that bad to me. I would have the guides and valves done. Any good engine rebuild shop can do them .. That is a common fix that almost all blocks will need. Then you can either JB Weld the hole or drill and tap it for a brass screw that you cut off a little long and "pein" the head as well as add Loctite or some sealer to the threads. If you are carefull and only run the starter tap in part way, it will cut a taper thread, Then screw the brass bolt/screw into the hole till it is tight, It makes a very easy, permanent, fix. You are going to have a hard time finding any block without some minor problems. The problems you are describing are minor in my opinion. Especially for a 26-27 block ... But again, they are my opinions for what they are worth .. Good luck with whatever you decide to do ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza, north adams ma on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 07:37 pm:

That block looks like a good start for rebuild, expect to find more cracks if you go to rebuild it. Honestly if you tear one done that far you should really look hard for cracks as its already apart! How is the other motor with the bent pan coming along?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 08:02 pm:

I wish some that I started out on a rebuild was as good as this one, got'a still be worth $500.00


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 09:38 pm:

All of it can be repaired;
Typical Model T poor rebuild.
As Dave Mazza mentioned it will have cracks and or core shift with the rivet hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 09:55 pm:

J&M, so, what you are saying is having it magnafluxed as Matt has said was done, will not find all the cracks?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 11:44 pm:

Is your hole the triangle piece that looks like in the picture is broke out and to the right of the hole?
Here's a suggestion that I have used with good success on my '12. This was only a crack, not a hole where the piece has fallen out. I cleaned the surface and cut some brass shim stock to cover the crack and used Ultra Black or better The Right Stuff by Permatex to glue the patch on. I also covered the patched area with the same and then painted over. This has held much better than the JB Weld did I think because the JB cures hard and doesn't flex with the temp changes.

Of course neither are the recommended permanent repair methods. Good luck and let us know what you decide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 12:07 am:

Matt,
Any other core block you find may not be any better. The hole can be repaired with irontite tapered pins. If the wall is too thin for that, it has major core shift or rust and should be junked, but that is unlikely. As for the valves, you can probably ream the guides to 11/32" and use valves with oversized heads to bring the valves back up on the deck. We use Ford 351 Windsor exhaust valves. Cheaper than replacing the seats. You said the block was magnafluxed, so no cracks, right? How about the cylinder, size? If it can be bored to a reasonable oversize, then repair the hole and go with it. We repair much worse holes and cracks. Good rebuildable cores are getting harder to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 12:50 am:

Any shop that puts off center guides in, can't be trusted to find cracks.

Cracks will not show, if the crack has any water in it.

If the block was not bead blasted good enough, and buy our standards, that block is filthy, the crack could be full of rust, dirt, and old block sealer, it may not show some cracks.

No body I know would build a motor with out doing there own crack detection.

Herm.

The hole is no problem to fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 07:27 am:

J&M, so, what you are saying is having it magnafluxed as Matt has said was done, will not find all the cracks?Quote:

Frank,you can't magnaflux a dirty block it has to be cleaned for the powder to flow across the surface for a true result.

Furthermore with the blowout mentioned on this block it would also be wise to pressure test it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 10:39 am:

Is this what they call buying a "pig in a poke"?

Or. "Youse pays your money and youse takes your chance"?


It might be a good staring place but it sounds a bit risky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 11:40 am:

Those valve seats look good...no need to put inserts. Where does this crazy comment come from that all engines need new valve inserts? Too bad the babbitt is gone...it was probably usable. Seems like this poor block is being beaten to death...sounds perfectly usable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 01:10 pm:

John,

He was referring to valve guide inserts I believe. Which is what this block needs.

That block is o.k. None of those issues are so bad that you should abandon the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 03:48 pm:

What is this block worth as is? Fair to both seller and buyer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 04:20 pm:

OK, what are you machinests calling a dirty block? I know my eyes are getting old but what's left on that block that needs extra cleaning, all I see is the white residue left on it from the magnaflux primer, it looks paint, grease, oil and carbon free.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 05:34 pm:

Well, Frank, it is nice to know that you have eyes to match your Magnaflux ability.

With out the experience you need to know why, and you already have your mind set, it would be a wast of time to even start with you.

maybe next time,

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza, north adams ma on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 05:37 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza, north adams ma on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 05:40 pm:

forgot to actually type something! this is my block before rebuild after bake and blast. The highlights are defects found, after cleaning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 06:36 pm:

Yep Herm, just like you fitting your rods backwards for the last 40+ years and telling the rest of the world that's OK, and you accuse me of mind set!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 07:27 pm:

Matt: I would say under a 100 dollars as the blow out and other issues with the block. plus it's a late style so plenty around.

Our customer bought one for a replacement from Langs for 100 and was in far better shape,.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 06:08 pm:

I had 3 people interested in purchasing this block. I have responded to one, but misplaced the other 2 peoples information. If you contacted me to purchase this, please email me again. Thanks and sorry for losing your contact info.


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