Chinese Metal

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Chinese Metal
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 11:53 am:

I understand that some of the Model T reproduction items are now made in China. I will try and show two pictures of a chinese metal product below. One of the construction people I have breakfast with every Sunday brought this to breakfast this morning. He had seen a crack in it and put it in his vise and pried on it. You can see the results. It was supposed to be good for 3 1.4 tons. If it had been decent steel no force would have finished opening it open. Understand this is no little piece its 5/16" thick. No amount of prying would open this item if it was steel that was any good. I have to wonder how safe some of the model T products are that are being make in China!!!

picture

You may be able to see the crack over 1.2 way through.

crack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 12:11 pm:

CORRECTION; I made a mistake on the diameter its 9/16th thick. More than big enough to pickup anything if it was decent steel.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 12:18 pm:

I'm not a metal expert but have worked with Chinese metal in the past. It seems to me that they use inferior steel and then harden the daylights out of it. It won't wear but then all of a sudden, snap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:06 pm:

We have a similar problem in the toy train hobby, as most of the trains are made "over there". The railroad car trucks (that the wheels ride in) are "die cast" (ie, Pot Metal) and many of them break while still in the package, while others fall apart while being run on a layout (RUN?? You actually RUN your trains?? --factory rep's response). Just no quality control on them, as I understand it, they are sub-contracted out by the Chinese manufacturer, and are likely made in many someone's back yards.
And, YES, we complain about it a lot, but so far, no real change has happened, except to use screws to put them together, which doesn't help when the metal falls apart elsewhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:10 pm:

I've been to Chinese factories and seen what they are capable of doing. If you tell them you need X number of widgets and the price needs to be Y, they will do it just as you say. You will get the cheapest possible crap.

On the other hand, if you tell the Chinese you want X number of widgets made per specification of quality, and please tell us what the price will be, they will do it EXACTLY as you tell them, with quality EXACTLY as you specify. You will get excellent quality.

Guess how the repro parts are being ordered by some vendors, and you can see that the problem is not the Chinese - it is the vendor who accepts inferior product.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:14 pm:

Some Chinese factories turn out good stuff, and some turn out junk. There's a lot of junk because customers vote for it with their dollars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter C. Strebeck on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:34 pm:

Royce nailed it right on the head. Whatever the product is, it is made to the standards and specifications that the customer wants and will accept, both in price and quality. Don't blame the guy that made it, blame the guy that told/asked for it to be made that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:58 pm:

So when the JR Woodchuck sails off to harbor fright to get his rigging equip will he know if he is getting good stuff or the lowest bidder?? I think a good brand USA MADE even used is a better buy but maybe others think the chinese have/use a safety factor of 5 to 1?? Is this made to a quality or down to a price?? Buy good brand name USA!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 02:07 pm:

My experience with many Chinese manufactured parts is that the quality isn't always bad, but it is inconsistent even in the same lot. I had to replace the rear brake drums on my Escape last year. I went to my local Oreilly parts store and had to use Chinese sourced brake drums because that's all they had in stock at the time and I couldn't wait to order others. It took multiple trips to get a set of brake drums that weren't machined off center. And they weren't all consistently machined off center either...they varied up to 3/16" of an inch. Had similar experiences with Chinese wheel bearings as well. Now if all possible, I just specify US sourced parts or reputable foreign manufacturers like NGK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 02:33 pm:

The crack might be caused by hydrogen embrittlement induced by the pickling process to clean the steel prior to galvanizing. The higher the hardness the more likely this is to occur. The part will look fine as it leaves the galvanizing process but will later crack under no load and without warning. This generally can occur when galvanizing or plating a steel harder than 30 Rockwell C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 02:41 pm:

Let's review ... outside of Studebaker owners, who are the biggest cheapskates
on earth ? Yeah ... we've all seen the Harbor Freight discussions here.

If so many people vote for cheap over quality with their purchasing dollars, guess
what happens ?

Oh yeah, and the guys who voted for cheap seem to have a peculiar way of forgetting
they forfeited their right to complain about quality/failures in the voting process. :-P

Wassup with that ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 02:42 pm:

Ted, Chrome plating will do this also. We had to keep a close eye on the uprights for the rear wing on the dragster. It the plating starts to look like used foil the support had to go. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter C. Strebeck on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 02:44 pm:

From a post above:

"Buy good brand name USA!!"

What qualifies as brand name USA, where it is made, or just the name?

Starrett makes products in China, Taiwan and Japan, as does Snap-On, Williams, Armstrong, Greenfield, Timken, Craftsman and the list goes on and on. The last group of Timken bearings that I had bought for a project were marked Made In Romania. If you want American made products, you need to really look for where they are made, the name does not mean that much anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 03:12 pm:

A little off topic, but look for the label "born, raised and slaughtered in the United States" whenever you shop for meat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 03:15 pm:

Another good illustration of cheap metal these days is the metal used to make wood screws and and various screws found in hardware stores.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:12 pm:

John, when I had the sign business and made a lot of screens, I learned to buy good screws by the boxful and throw away the crappy ones that came with the hardware. I got fed up with breaking screws and having to extract them. Another item that's junk these days is roofing nails. The label says Galvanized, but the electroplating is so thin they turn into rust spots in a few years. That's why I buy boxes or cans of old hot dipped nails when I see them at auctions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Max L. Christenson on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:26 pm:

It is difficult to establish and maintain jurisdiction and venue in a U.S. State or Federal court in a lawsuit against a foreign designer and/or manufacture of a given product if, for instance, death or injury results from the design and/or manufacture of a given product by a foreign designer and/or manufacturer.

Therefore, buy new products designed and manufactured in the USA, even if they cost more. Don’t buy foreign made new products. Buy old USA made products, if new USA made products are not available. Restored old USA made products are probably better than new foreign products. “Made In The USA” is the best product to buy. The USA product will probably be superior, even if it needs to be restored. Additionally, it’s a matter of being able to recover against the foreign designer and/or manufacturer. In other words, consider, as foreign designers and/or manufacturers do, your ability to recover against any foreign designer and/or manufacturer. It’s not personal, it’s just business, right?

If, to file your lawsuit, you must, unfortunately, resort to hiring one of those lawyers who you once thought was one of those worthless, hated, scumbag, ambulance-chasing trial/tort lawyers in one of those States that proudly enacted “tort reform” legislation limiting your recovery, then good luck.

If your lawsuit fails, or your recovery is severely limited due to those “tort reform” laws, which serve to reduce losses paid by (and increase the profits of) the generic “Holy Grail Insurance Company,” but do little if anything to reduce your insurance premium rates, then thank your State or Federal legislator, for whom you voted for election, for the “tort reform” he or she so proudly supported. In other words, you voted to “screw those worthless bastards,” but you ended up screwing yourself. Live with your decision.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:34 pm:

I had a similar link like that on the chain that supports the rear "flap" of my tractor mounted tiller. I had to change to a old thing with 2 pins in it that I dug out of a bucket of junk. 3 of those links, they failed. Some stuff you cant just go to a place and buy a US made part. The link in the first pic,where would you buy a US made 1?
Who in the US still makes brake drums?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 05:08 pm:

We do indeed vote with our pocketbooks. What's sad is that as soon as one vendor (Generically speaking here. I do not mean Model T parts vendors....necessarily) goes overseas to have some item made really cheap, none of his competitors are any longer competitive. We buy the cheap one. Eventually, all the competitors have to go overseas as well. Then we no longer even have a choice. It gets to where you couldn't buy a good quality one even if you are willing to pay the extra, 'cause there ain't one to buy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Memmelaar Jr on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 06:31 pm:

I have to chime in as I sell manufacturing equipment to China, grinding machines specifically. I travel there 4-5 times per year and I have seen the craziest stuff over there. Cheap quality stuff, sometimes, quality stuff sometimes. I have had some bizarre experiences also, too many to count.

They buy our equipment for many things including guide wires for angioplasty surgery. our customers grind to the same tolerances as companies do in the USA, buy raw material made in the USA, and without blinking an eye hold tolerances to +/- .000040". The operators when I stop in always take me to the machines and our Gauging systems and go back to previous wires with questions, and they are always in spec, and they always want to do better.

Consumers In the USA buy at Walmart, Home Depot, and lowes, price counts. That's why HD talks about the lowest advertised prices. If they said that they had products that's were 50% higher but made in the USA, do you think that they would still be in business? Who knows.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Dorholt - Mpls, MN on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 06:58 pm:

I sell rigging products and in Dave's picture of the shackle there is no way any of my customers would allow any thing made in China on the job site or even close. USA made shackles are each individually proof tested to 2-1/2 time there working load limit and have certification. I hope the construction guy brought who brought the shackle to coffee did so to show why they don't use China made products in a industry where someone could get seriously injured of even worst.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 07:09 pm:

Well now everyone should know where to buy the stuff that wont get you killed!!!!! Spend the money for the good stuff that should last you a long lifetime!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 08:40 pm:

I'm of the opinion that there are various reasons for either the good or bad quality of "Made in China" products:

A lot of Chinese stuff is junk simply because the Chinese can get away with that, simply because so many of us shop at Walmart and the like.

Some Chinese stuff is of good quality, simply because the Chinese have the ability to manufacture good quality products and sometimes, U.S. engineers demand quality.

Now then, this is conjecture on my part, but I sincerely believe that some "Made in China" products are cheaply made junk, simply because some U.S. companies with well known old and trusted U.S. brand names actually specify cheap materials and manufacturing standards, knowing that, depending on what the product is, enough U.S. consumers will buy the product anyway, and just blame the poor quality on the mere fact that it was "Made in China", and the company can still retain their well respected name that was established years ago when the product WAS originally made in the U.S.A. to high quality standards. In other words, I'm of the opinion that it isn't always the Chinese that are to blame. It's sometimes, just another example of "corporate greed"! Just my opinion, FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 10:25 pm:

Well here is a couple examples of my bad experiences.
What bothers me is if someone ask for a product to be made that is obviously unsafe,why doesn't someone in china take notice and say something along the lines of "Hey we aint lettin' that junk out of our factor with our name on it"!
This hatchet was bought at a auction sale and placed under the seat of the little Focus I had for a while for use as a hammer or whatever. The first time I used it this is what happened.
I never did find the rest of the grinding wheel.But see if you can read the info in the little block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 10:29 pm:

the hatchet didnt show up,Btw,I used the top side to wap a tomato stake,not drive a nail.:>)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 11:47 pm:

Yikes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 08:56 am:

The NAPA owner told me the only hand tools made in the USA now is Armstrong. I was impressed by the quality of a 3/8" ratchet I bought for 2.00 then found out the same one at NAPA was well over 100.00. The local boat parts outlet only sells Armstrong but you better get your checkbook out to buy the tools. I am constantly heat bending or modifying a cheap tool for a one time use. I like both ends of quality for price reasons.


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