Does this I can join the two piece club?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Does this I can join the two piece club?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 03:58 pm:

Got that what thought was just cracked front cross member out today. Buy was I ever surprised!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 03:59 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:03 pm:

Ouch!!! I have never seen that before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:40 pm:

Like your lift. More than a 2X4 cross beam I hope.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:55 pm:

Do you need another??? I think I have one for the cost of shipping. I Can check tomorrow it you want me to


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 04:57 pm:

if


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 08:00 pm:

The lift is only holding a little weight. I lifted the engine myself to check it. Most of the weight is on the back. I have a new crossmember I bought off Model T Haven but thank you. It did make for an interesting ride back from the show Saturday.I had assumed that I just busted the center bolt in the spring. Image my surprize when I found that.


I spent most of the day getting the rivets out, What a pain that was. You can just bet rivets are not going back in!

The new crossmember will be going in tomorrow morning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Livingston, Honolulu, Hawaii on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 11:13 pm:

Will,

What do you plan to use in place of the rivets? I have some to replace also.

Jeff Livingston


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 11:37 pm:

Grade 8 Hex Head Washer Face Frame Bolts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 12:36 am:

Rivets allow the frame to twist. It's a pain, but IMHO, they're better than bolts in this use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 12:46 am:

I've looked at quite a few semi truck tractor frames and I've seen bolts (and rivets) used. The bolts I mentioned are made especially for use in frames and mine have worked out great.

I would think that if rivets allowed any actual "movement" right at a joint, there would eventually be wear, which I can't imagine would be a good thing. I would think that a "T" frame would "twist" or flex just as much (or as little) with bolts as with rivets.

Hey David,.....I'll bet that between you and me, we've probably just "opened a can of worms"! And so it begins,....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 01:09 am:

If it were mine and I used bolts instead of rivets, I'd peen the threads around the nuts so they won't twist loose as the frame flexes.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 02:51 am:

Norm - That sure would cover all the bases, right?

Hey,.....that peening step would sort of be a combination of rivet and bolt,...........rivet/bolt---------"rivolt"! I like it! ;o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 08:05 am:

My plan is to use fine thread grade 8 bolts with red lock tight. It shouldn't move after that.

After seeing how tight those rivets were I find it hard to believe anything would be able to move. Even after cutting the heads off on both sides and grinding them smooth to the frame I had to heat the rivets white hot to almost the melting to get them out of the frame.

It not a job I will want to do again anytime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 09:07 am:

The secret is to bore partially through a rivet after you have ground off one side of the head. This makes it easier to remove the body of the rivet.I use a 1/4 drill bit on the larger rivets, There are many of them in a set of top bows,so I get lots of practice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 10:42 am:

I have just removed just about all the rivets in a '27 coupe body (not fenders, etc) floor sub-braces, "T" strips, rain gutters, firewall, spare tire brace, rear panel brace, front cross member, and now the steering gear case. I have tried many ways. I found the way Jack does it, works the best. Then drive them out with a hammer & punch, or a air-hammer with small tip to fit inside the hole, you drilled.
Now I have to replace all those rivets, about 65-75 in all, and all the spot welds that go with them! I call it fun, well I did at first. My wife is going to heat each rivet with my torch, and I'm going to air-hammer them home.

Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 10:44 am:

The same thing happened to the front part of the crankcase out of my '13 touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 01:28 pm:

Harold,
I think you are right! And my post was not thought-out well. The advantage to the rivet, if done properly, is that the rivet shank expands to fill the frame/cross-member holes completely, whereas a bolt does not. So, this provides flexibility without allowing the parts to move around.
Rolls Royce used slightly tapered bolts when attaching anything to their frames, so the bolt would swedge into place, again no movement at the attaching holes.
Another can-O-worms: are Grade 8 Bolts too brittle for this application?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 04:46 pm:

All I know is that the well-known fastener company where I bought them upon the recommendation of a well respected Model T engine/chassis rebuilder, explained that they are actually called "frame bolts" and are specifically designed for just what I used them for, to bolt a crossmember (front) into a frame. I would think that "metalurgically speaking" (if that's a word) in this law-suit happy society we live in nowadays, the well known and respected fastener manufacturer would know what they are doing and not produce a product that would get them into liability type trouble.

Also, I don't remember the exact size, but I had to re-drill the existing rivet holes to a very slightly larger diameter to fit the frame bolts that were a slightly larger diameter than the rivets. I did this very carefully so as to provide an almost interference fit for the bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 04:52 pm:

Will - Before you buy any bolts, Google "frame bolts" as there is a lot of information that might be of help to you. For instance, some specially designed frame bolts like the ones I bought have a special sharp toothed locking washer faced head as do the nuts. And they are Grade 8 as you mentioned .......harold


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