They are 30x3 1/2, the back are hays and the front have a p on them. What year do you think these go to (ignore the hubcaps), are they square fellow or round fellow? They are balanced, is this something that was originally done, or done later on. Thanks
Our messages crossed. Those are round felloe and Hayes and Pruden both supplied wheels to Ford.
with 30 x 3-1/2 on the front and clincher...you are either looking at Canadian or someone has already done a hub swap from former rears.
The 'p' stands for Pruden...generally not all that common but at the same time not uncommon either...
As to age, don't know but not at all early...I see rivets and those rears appear to have near square edged felloes. The fronts appear to be scallop edged in the pics...if so that defines a period IIRC...I just forget exactly what that period is! (old age crap...but think 17-19?)
are they rivets or bolts? (the eyes are the second thing to go!)
You don't say what year car this is, but from the tapered rear spring I assume 1916 or before. Originally it had 30 x 3 in front. The round-felloe wheels were used before 1917. Felloe plates had H for Hayes, K for Kelsey, or P for Prudden. Ford also made some of their own wheels, so occasionally you'll find plates with the Ford logo. If the front hubs have three holes on the inside for a speedometer gear, that dates them to before June 1918. I believe the balance weights are modern accessory.
I got a car and a half worth of mix matched parts in a barn and decided to put them together and make a car. There were enough early parts to make me want to make a brass car. In addition, Before he passed, Neil Jern sold me these wheels and a brass 16 radiator, so I've decided to make a pieced together "fake" 15/16 touring. That's why I'm trying to pin down info and years on my various parts.
For that you want the Encyclopedia and the Rodda books. A lot of parts changed several times over the years, so you need references to sort out what's what. I'm still learning about things to change on my 1915.
I have read through several encyclopedias and have the other parts nailed down, but the wheels have stumped me. I can't tell if they are round fellow or square.
The fronts are round for sure, but as George says, they appear to be former rears. From the picture, the rears look round to me too. Measure across the diameter of the rims (next to the tire). Are they 24", or 25"? The former is 30 x 31/2, and the latter is 30 x 3.
Daniel, they are not square felloes. One is more rounded than the other, but it is not a square felloe. Most likely just a different manufacturers interpretation of round.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Square felloe fronts
Prudden round felloe front
Hayes round felloe rear
Thank you for all your input, I really appreciate it!
In light of them being round fellow, what years would they be? Thanks much!
See my 11:10 post. That info is from the McCalley encyclopedia.
I think the change to square felloes was during the 1918 model year based on the info in the encyclopedia. 1918 was a long model year, from august 1917 to January 1919. There is a letter in Ford Archives from April 16, 1918 that specifies the use of square felloes instead of round on wheels from Hayes and Prudden.
Here is a 1920 photo of Florence and Claude Lattin with a Model T that may have been produced during the transition period, since it looks like it had rounded felloes in the front and square in the rear:
Like Steve said, measure the actual rim rather than looking at the tire size. It is possible to stretch 30 x 3-1/2 tires onto the 24" rim of a wheel made to hold a 30 x 3 tire. Our '18 Touring had 30 x 3-1/2's on the front when we got it, but measuring the rims showed the rims were correct and only the tires were wrong. Boy, as hard as clinchers are to mount sometimes, you gotta wonder what possessed someone to stretch them 1" bigger than they are supposed to be.
They look just like the ones on my 15 Roadster.
That except for the rear ones look like they have bolts instead of rivets. After looking a tad closer looks like they both have bolts. Mine look like the black ones.
I've been doing a bit of measuring. Round-felloe nondemountables, front and back. One piece of information that may seem counter intuitive is that 30 x 3 rims are bigger than 30 x 31/2. Here are the numbers.
Size 30 x 31/2.
Rim diamter 24".
Rim to outside of tire: 31/4".
Ground to top of tire: just under 31".
Front: 30 x 3.
Rim diameter: 25".
Rim to outside of tire: about 21/2".
Tire height about 30".
If you take the 3 or 3-1/2 part of the tire size, double it, then subtract it from the 30, you get the inside diameter of the tire. 30 x 3-1/2's are 23" inside. 30 x 3's are 24" inside.