Difference between A and B rims?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Difference between A and B rims?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta - Dayton, Ohio on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 02:43 pm:

Pic #1.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta - Dayton, Ohio on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 02:44 pm:

Pic # 2.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta - Dayton, Ohio on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 02:46 pm:

Pic #3.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta - Dayton, Ohio on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 02:47 pm:

Pic#4.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 06:18 pm:

A are not interchangeable with B...in either direction!

Two different manufacturers/two different designs...with the 'A' being the Hayes type.

I bought 4 complete wheels last fall, great hubs, great wood, even had decent rubber on them with matching tread...ready to use on a moments notice...never thought to check for a miss-match even though I should know better!

Got home and went to mount one as a spare on something I had...noticed it was a type 'A' in your illustration. Danged...not going to work on this car as it is all 'B'! So thought of changing out all 4 and finding a 5th just to have the Hayes set on something...but then noticed the other 3 were like your part 'B'. Oh well...

On your type A, the rim will have a lug...and the lug will pass through the rim ridge. Unlike a B where the ridge is never 'broken'. The sketch below is deceiving until you know better...the Hayes lug actually passes through a notch in the rim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 07:27 pm:

Scott,

To add some additional information to what George has shared. The wheel suppliers to Ford as well as Ford Motor Company made several different style felloes and rims And to complicate things a little more so did lots of other companies both for other makes and models as well as accessory wheels for the Model T Ford.

Note, if you give us a little more background that could really help out. I.e. are these the felloes off the Coupe in your profile photo and you are working to rebuild the wheels or did you purchase these at a swap meet and you don’t know if they are for a Ford or not etc.?

Suggested way ahead:

Step 1: Determine if the felloes are for a 30 x 3 1/2 or a 21 inch balloon rim. Do you have a regular 30 x 3 1/2 inch rim that fits wheels that originally came with Fords? I think the ones on your 1924-25 style coupe (possibly sold in 1923 but apparently the 1924-25 style body with the doors hinged at the front, splash apron below the radiator etc.) are 30 x 3 1/2. If they are 30 x 3 1/2 and seem to fit the felloes about right – then the felloes are most likely for a 30 x 3 1/2 rim. If the fellow is much smaller but was one supplied by Ford from the factory then it is most likely the 21 inch split rim balloon tire felloe. Which do you have?

Step 2: If you have one of the original felloes that came with a USA Ford car for use with a 30 x 3 1/2 rim then one of the rims shown below should fit. Same illustration from George's posting above and used in the Jan 1924 Ford Service Bulletin with the caution of don't mix rims and felloes that are not compatible. I reposted below in case some other postings show up before I hit post.





Two of those rims the Ford 2845C and the Ford 2845D are designed to fit on a felloe that has a cup around the valve stem as shown in the photo at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/467592.html?1407242022 which also shows you how the indent on your rim “A” appears to be torn out and split – although with wheels for Ford Model Ts we are still discovering more and more “I didn’t know they made them like that…items.”



If the felloe you have marked “B” has the cup around the valve stem and it was originally supplied from the Ford USA factory, I would give it a good chance of using a Ford 2845C rim. If it does NOT have a cup it is NOT designed to use either of the Ford 2845C or Ford 2845D rims. See photo below of rims and a 2845C rim on the wheel (again photos courtesy of Steve Shelton):






I did not see any raised area on the felloe that would indicate they were Kelsey loose lug felloes. But please confirm the do NOT have any raised area for a loose lug to fit up against. See photo below courtesy of Ron Grigsby that shows a raised area next to the lug bolt hole. A loose lug fits up against:





Above from Vintage Ford and below by Bob Wood:



I do NOT like the way the felloe labeled “A” looks because the slot looks worn to me and the hole is torn out where the lug bolt goes. But I suspect both a Ford 2845B and a Hayes 2845B rim would fit it properly (again assuming it was originally supplied on a USA Model T and is a felloe for a 30 x 3 1/2 rim. ). If felloe “A” has a cup around the valve stem then it might also be able to use the Ford 2845D rim that was produced by Firestone and Cleveland and possibly Motor Wheel for Ford as well as Ford may have produced some of them. If it does NOT have a cup then the 2845D should not be used as the rim will rotate (especially on a rear wheel) and cut the valve stem.

That should get you started on figuring out what you have along with what others have shared and will share. Also if you provide those additional clues to us (which if either felloe has a cup around the valve stem; which if either are designed for the 30 x 3 1/2 rim and which if either is designed for the 21 inch balloon tire rim; and which if either might be for a different car completely?)

If you are putting together a set of wheels the recommend solution is to have wheels so a single spare will fit any wheel. Ford helped make that possible for the 30 x 3 1/2 demountables when he directed all USA wheel suppliers to provide the same style wheel using the Hayes/Ford 2845B style rim. That started around Mar 1924 see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels .

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, April 07, 2015 - 07:01 am:

Scott, for what they are worth, seeing they are based on our Canadian sourced cars, my thoughts are as follows.

All T demountable BE rims are designed to be wedged onto the felloe when the four bolts are tightened. Some wedged on the outside edge, others on the inside. There were varying devices to stop the rim sliding on the felloe, the jug over the bolt next to the valve stem, the collar around the valve hole and its receiver around the valve hole in the felloe.

If you look at your two felloes you will see that the inner edge on A is wider than that on B. In my experience, that felloe with the wider inside edge is made to accept rims with fixed lugs. If all is in good order, when the bolts are done up the lug will still be standing off the outside of the felloe, the inside of the rim will be wedged hard up on the inside edge of the felloe, and you should still be able to insert a business card between the rim and the felloe on the outside.

Your felloe A is buggered. The wide inner edge of the felloe must be well worn where the rim should be binding, so worn that the lug on the rim has been rubbing on the outside of the felloe.

Our Kelsey loose lug rims are designed to wedge on the outside edge of the felloe, so the inside edge is not as wide as on your A felloe. More like your B felloe. When the loose lugs are in
good order, the rim will be wedged against the outside edge of the felloe, and a business card can be inserted between the rim and felloe on the inside.

Today we have to deal with what we have. Most felloes and rims have some wear, through being loose or rusted. This will allow both kinds of rims and felloes in their various combinations, to bolt up with fixed lugs hard against the felloe, rims wedging on both inner and outer felloe edges, loose lugs worn and exerting no pressure to hold the rim tight.

The best advice I can offer is that you seek wheels with four matching felloes, and then go hunting for the correct rims.

This may help, or may not!!

Allan from down under.


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