So, we've got this truck that has some mixed information happening, as do many I assume. We are attempting to gather and specify what exactly this is, for sale purposes.
What we know is, the serial on the engine is from August 1916. It is an electric start though, with generator, etc and is a truck. The entire cab is metal, and was believed to have a cloth top, but now is metal. The dash has nothing more than one gauge on it.
All I can assume is that this is not the original engine, but likely an older engine that was put into this newer model truck that had electric start. Is this an accurate/correct assumption do you think?
Do not believe that is a 16 engine with a one piece valve cover and other later items. No view of the rear of the block and pedals which would tell more. You have 26/7 head components and so on. Put a pic up of the floor board and pedals.
You need more pictures of the motor, pan, Hogs head Ect.
It is not a 16, it is 19 to 27.
Look and see if there are two bolts on top on the top hogs, holding it to the motor, and two wide peddles, and one narrow in the middle.
I missed that Jim, 24 to 27, looking like the engine it should have.
Jim is correct. You must have misread the serial number, or maybe it was a replacement block stamped with an earlier number. That block is 1919 or later. The water outlet with a fan pulley on it is a 26-27 feature, and I suspect the truck is 26 or 27 as well. Let's see the pedals and the back of the block where the transmission bolts on.
The closed cab is 1925 and later. The rounded switch backer on the
dash is 1925, 26-27 got the squared one. 25 retained the diamond
shaped pedals, where 26-27 had the extended jobs for hi-lo and brake.
Hogshead is 26-27. Look close and you can see partial bosses where it bolts to the block. Agree with others that a digit was likely missed in the S/N.
I would say 26-27. Longer running boards. There is a ground cable running to one of the bolts where hogshead mounts to the block.
I was thinking 26-7 because of the nickel plated radiator shroud.
And other reasons as cited above.
Has the trim on the seams on the back of the cab, so it's not a '25... definitely 26 or 27.
I would guess you missed a digit in the serial number. Somewhere around 12-15 million instead of 1.2-1.5 million
Pick-up and flatbed builders, NOTE the gaps between the tray floorboards to allow expansion/contraction with wetting and drying of the timbers. This one has plain, ie NOT tongue and grooved boards, which will allow water to drain away quickly under the finisher strips.
Just for interest.
Allan from down under.
I say 26/7
The fan mounting is definitely 26/7 and I cannot see the fan mounting used from 1911 to 1925. The carb is clearly not original, the mixture adjustment rod is the style used 1917 thru 24 while the carb has the remnants of the universal joint on the 25/6.
I agree that the bolts between the hogs head and the block will be definitive.
Everything seen screams 26/27 and as others point out if the hogshead has two ears at the top then definitive. The carb is an easy rationalization,,,
You may just want to try something....what happens if you add the digit '1' in front of the serial numbers you presently think that you have? Does it then bounce into the 26/27 range????
If the switch plate is rectangular and painted black with large diameter ammeter, it is pre-26. If the switch plate is oval and nickel plated with small diameter ammeter, it is 26-27. Engines and transmissions can be swapped for any year, and very often, were. but it would be unusual for a enclosed cab and running boards to be swapped out for earlier components.
Wow...you guys are no joke...lol.
Here is the serial number I have. 13931822.
The prior owners gave this story about the cab, that I've been unable to verify. Let me run it by you here. They stated that it was an earlier production truck, but that the body was added by returning to the dealer or factory for fitment. Has anyone heard of such an option before? I'd imagine even if this were somehow possible, the dash, pedals and other aspects would've change, and from what it appears, interior aspects point to 26-27 as well. Interesting.
Here is another pic I have that I forgot to post.
To add to above...my statement seemed unclear, and I can't appear to be able to edit.
If the story of a metal cab replacement, or enclosure being added is possible, it'd be unlikely the dash or other aspects would change. The story sounded a bit outlandish but I figure if people were given an option to enclose the cab, they may have taken it back then...so I'm curious.
Couple questions...excuse my ignorance
1. What is a Hogshead?
2. When some of you refer to the "switchplate", we are referring to a plate on the interior dash?
I'm going to take some more pics...I'll post them shortly.
The Hogshead is the top half of the transmission housing. I have no experience with hogs, but apparently it's about the same size and shape when removed from the car.
The official date for that serial number is Wednesday, July 7, 1926, late in the 1926 model year. I call it the "official date" because that's when the number was assigned to an engine. If it was in Detroit, it's probable that the engine was actually made on that day. If it was at one of the branch plants, it could have been the same day or a few days or weeks later.
The hogshead is the transmission cover. It has the pedals on it. In this case the pedals, hogshead, and engine are all 26-27.
Yes, the switch plate is on the dash and has the ignition switch and ammeter on it.
Damian, It sounds like you don't know much about Model Ts, this is just a friendly reminder, "Resist the urge to pull start this truck by hooking onto the front axle" you could cause yourself a lot of problems. JMHO
That's late enough in production there should be a serial number stamped to the top side of the frame on the passenger side visible when the floorboards are removed. I can't see it in the picture above, but it's probably there... frame number should match the engine number unless the engine was ever changed in the past ~89 years
Look at this photo and see if you find a serial number stamped on the top of the frame rail at or near the location shown by the arrow?
Ron the Coilman
Damian - Beginning on about December 12, 1925, Ford began putting the engine number on the frame also. It was stamped on the top of the frame rail usually on the right side. It would be about where the passengers feel are, approximately in line with where the hand brake lever is. You should be able to see the number, but it may be filled in with dirt, etc., so you might have to wire brush the area to see it.
If you find the number and it's the same as your engine number, then you can determine the year of your truck. However, as Steve said above, the date of your engine is close to the model changeover date (usually August 1st), and if your truck was assembled at one of the branches, then it could have been made later than the engine number would indicate.
Yes, you'd be accurate, I'm not very familiar with ModelT's. Fortunately, no towing or pull starting will be necessary, this example runs quite well.
I'm going to get some final information and see if we have a match here.
Where would you folks place value for a vehicle such as this? Runs and functions as it should, body is solid but has surface rust. I
Additionally, is there anything that could specifically be done, in your opinion, to increase its resale value, shy of a full restoration?
The best thing that you can do to make the truck sell is to have the VIN on the title match the VIN on the truck. The title should be in the name of the seller. This is known as a "clear" title.
Other than that being honest, and providing pictures of the VIN and interior / exterior / engine compartment will be vital to anyone buying who cannot inspect the truck in person.
I am guessing its value with a clear title is about $4500 - $6500.
That's always an interesting subject because, a car is worth what any given person is willing to pay. Not all buyers are market savvy and educated via gathering spots of like owners.
In a sense you can establish value on these by searching the listings online, but you'll see a very different value if you search listings online say...craigslist. You'll also see very different value searching trade papers, etc. The key is, advertising in markets where there are less established values or the market isn't flooded. Internet has pressed value down, because it makes the pool seem more full, when in reality, that's not the case. I know for certain there are people out there who will pay 10k on a whim for something this old and not think twice. My question is how much beyond that I can get.
Biggest key with the demographics likely to buy a car like this....a very low percentage of them are online savvy. They buy based upon the value their eye places on it, versus the sum of their bank account.
Thanks for all the help folks...very appreciated and I salute you all. Now, let's see what we can pull out of this old bird with some creative marketing strategies.
Great story: I had a Ferrari with very high mileage I was brokering once. Car had no maintenance records, was VERY driven, needed a ton, no a/c, barely any heat, etc. I approached resalers...they said NO way. Even approached salvage companies for exotics, they literally said they wouldnt' even buy it. A Ferrari...and to the Ferrari educated I couldn't sell this thing for 15k bucks to save my life! A ferrari!
Keep in mind, this Ferrari runs and drives. Looks like a Ferrari...a bad ass one at that. To the educated market, with well established values and known costs, the car was upside down essentially...to make it worth anything at all, you'd need to spend more than it's worth in scheduled maintenance.
So, I decided to go on general contractor and restaurant owner forums. People who had NO cars for sale...they were selling back hoes on there, ditch diggers, pizza ovens...and I listed a Ferrari.
I sold that car for 47k dollars cash....in one week. The buyer never asked for a thing...he bought it like he buys a Dodge truck...he drove it, looked it over, said "this is Don Johnsons car" and it was sold. So...always keep in mind, this forum/area is the most saturated/educated market out there. This is where you DON'T want to sell a model T...lol.
Royce is right about the real market value for it, but on a farm equipment auction, I'd bet on it selling for closer to 10k for the same reasons you said about the Ferrari...