OT - RHD 1907 Model S for sale

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT - RHD 1907 Model S for sale
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Australia on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 02:42 am:

http://hcca.org/classifieds.php?cars


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 03:30 am:

That car has been for sale for a while locally. I first saw it advertised about 12 months ago (and the carb was mentioned then ) I'm surprised it hasn't sold and that the carb still isn't fixed I wonder if more is going on than is apparrent-How complicated can it be to fix the carburettor If he doesn't have the skills then just send it to Stan Howe ! -Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 08:00 am:

That's a nice car for the money, but the shipping will cost half as much more! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 09:10 am:

I thought it cost about $2,000 to ship a car from Down Under to the US. I'm sure some Forum members know.

It's a pretty car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Dwyer in Troy, New York on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 09:24 am:

If it were only $2000 shipping lots more guys would do it. In the off chance it may be that cheap to get it to the port at Los Angeles, the car has still got to get through US customs -- and God-knows what gymnastics that involves --- and then brought to the buyer's home. Way too much hassle.

I looked into shipping a car from somewhere in Europe to New York several years ago. Turned out to be about $7000 door-to-door. Not cheap. I did not buy the car.

But, as asked, if anyone knows for certain what it costs, I'd be interested to hear. Maybe I'm wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 09:33 am:

First a nice looking photo and most likely a nice car.

Second it appears to have the 1908 Model S Roadster fenders, running boards, splash aprons but appears to have the body used on the 1907-1908 Model N Runabout and late 1907-1908 Model S Runabouts. It could be as simple as when it was restored the owner purchased the Model S Roadster fenders and adjusted the brackets to match. Or it might be a combination of 1908 Roadster Chassis and 1907-08 Runabout body. Or it might be some other reason why it has the combination it has.

Third it appears from the photo to be in nice shape. The carb is minor -- any Model T Carb will function (some adjustment to the fule line & throttle linkage -- but the car runs great on an NH carb. No it wasn't original.)

It may be more of a case that the current owner is not experienced in marketing the car. A single photo is not as nice as multiple photos that show the engine details, transmission, axles, etc. A rebuilt original carb and having the car driving well would be a real plus for selling it quicker. And from the looks of the car -- that probably could be done relatively easily (assuming the gas tank is clean and not filled with goo or some other "gotcha" etc.)

And if anyone knows the engine serial number we might or might not be able to figure out some more about the chassis.

And as offered before, if anyone would like a free copy of an article on how to ID the N,R,S,&SR Fords -- please drop me an e-mail with your e-mail address. And please put "Send How to ID N,R,S,&SR" or something similar in the subj line. It will be read much sooner than the ones that are not old car related.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 09:42 am:

Hap, your posts here on this forum are incredible. I appreciate them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 12:03 am:

A car ex LA to New Zealand is about $2000 NZ dollars (that's about US$1500 on todays rates) On top of that we would pay sales tax of 15% and some minor import charges. I have no idea what the reverse charges would be but you would expect them to be the same for shipping but there would be no import duties or sales tax involved this end -Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 07:35 am:

Ed - thanks for the kind words. And thanks to everyone for posting so many interesting and helpful items. The forum allows us to more easily share and gather a lot more information about the early car than we could do just 20 years ago.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 07:55 am:

It looks as though the car has been removed from the HCCA site. Did anyone get photos that they could share please?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 08:29 am:

John,

There was only the one photo. I'm 90% sure it should be in my Temporary internet files since I looked at the photo. But I don't remember how to locate that file.... I'll try to figure that out and post it later. Or hopefully someone else will post it and I won't have to figure it out. Nice looking car in the photo and I believe it stated it had been restored in 2008 or something similar to that year.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 08:43 am:

Is it this one?

http://hcca.org/images/class/big/6525.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 09:31 am:

Jerry, it looks similar, except the car you linked to has Model N features such as step plates and plowshare fenders. A very attractive Model N:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 08:29 pm:

John,

Good news I figured out how to access the Temporary Internet Files. The bad news is that I was right clicking on them and opening them to see what they were. For 99% of them they opened the original website and displayed the original photo from that web page. But I believe for the one photo that was removed that was listed as a 1907 Model S Ford, when it tried to open the original page it had been removed. Because of that it now displayed “this page is no longer available” or something similar. And now I think that jpeg photo from that page was replaced by a newer file that just takes me to the “missing page.” I think if I had right clicked and copied the jpeg photo and then opened it, I would have been able to see it.

If someone who went to the HCCA site and viewed the photo can check their Apr 8, 2015 jpeg files (or which ever day you went to the site) from the HCCA – it might be there. Again – do not open the file from the Temporary Internet but copy it somewhere else. That worked well for me as I copied a lot of them at a time and pasted them in a new folder and displayed them a thumbnails. That made it easy for me to tell what was what.

For the older internet explorers to find the temporary internet files, you open internet explorer, click on tools, then click on the “settings” button under browsing history [NOT the other two “settings” buttons]. Then click on “view files” when the next window opens up. Probably more trouble than it is worth since it has been pulled. But worth a shot if you are waiting for some other file to download etc.

The car that was pictured on the HCCA site looked similar to the one shown below that is a Model R Runabout that has been fitted with the Model S Roadster fenders that have splash aprons on them. Note the photo below has a splash apron between the car and the running board while the car for sale on the HCCA site did not have the splash apron between the body and the running board. I apologize; I do not recall where I obtained that photo – if someone else knows, please let me know so I can add that to my files.





And for comparison above is a Model S Runabout that Jay posted of a Model S Runabout. Note the Model R Runabouts and Model S Runabouts used the same fenders, running boards and brackets. Yes, the same part numbers and interchangeable between the Model R Runabout and Model S Runabout. Jay originally posted that one at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/388337.html?1379049204 . And it clearly is a Model S Runabout. If you look closely you can see the grass between the rear wheel and the pointed trunk as highlighted in the photo below:




And below is an illustration from the 1908 Price List of Parts showing all four models. Note the side view that says Model R Runabout or Model S Runabout is actually a Model R from the previous year.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Nikolajevs on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 09:36 pm:

I think I found it.
Model N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 11:04 pm:

Thanks Peter for the photo - i certainly do not recognise the car. Does anyone in NZ know the history of this one?
Jerry - thanks for having a look anyway!
Hap - thanks yet again for such conscientious work to help identify the car concerned. The photo posted by Peter looks to have Model S Roadster fenders and no slash guard?
John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 01:12 am:

What most do not realize is that from the freight along side ship sending, and the freight along side ship ex-customs is in fact dirt cheap for even a 40 ft. container. I ship stuff all the time port of Shanghai to port of LA or port of NO and the container part/ship part is equal to less than 1200 bucks per on average...

It's always funny that from Shanghai to New Orleans is as cheap as that...but let me move that container from the port in New Orleans duty cleared, and it costs me over 2K to get it to Jackson Miss or Ft. Smith Ark. I get duty processed in advance since there is none for what I have coming in by class....US Custom fees and processing 400 or less each time something comes through no matter how many containers pass together. So for you guys that find yourself paying 7 or 7 plus? OK, now you have to get it to the port wherever...and that does cost something but that is more like the landed side delivery charge....so....now you know how much the broker makes for shuffling papers! :-):-):-) (Brokers do need to eat...but it doesn't take a whole lot of work to self-process)

As far as import into the USA and chance for duty...under country of origin, fill in USA-repatriated and chances are any customs inspector is going to agree with you and may even lose your admin fee slip! :-):-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 10:37 am:

Peter – yes, that was the photo of the car on the HCCA site. Thank you for locating it and sharing it. The car looks nice and if marketed better should sell. Thank you for your e-mail, and I will send you a copy of the article “How to ID the Model N,R, S, & SR Fords” later today. [For those that missed that offer – if you send me your e-mail I will send you a free copy of the article. Just click on my name and my e-mail address is the 3rd line down. Please put “Send How to ID the Model N,R,S & SR Fords” in the subject and it will be answered much sooner (or less slow depending on your perspective. It isn’t automated like Amazon.com so it will be longer than 5 seconds guaranteed.)

John,

Note I shared above, “The car that was pictured on the HCCA site looked similar to the one shown below that is a Model R Runabout that has been fitted with the Model S Roadster fenders that have splash aprons on them. Note the photo below has a splash apron between the car and the running board while the car for sale on the HCCA site did not have the splash apron between the body and the running board.”

I may have used the wrong term to describe the metal that goes from the front fender down to the frame and keeps the water from coming up between the fender and the hood. All the Model N, R & S Runabout Fenders do NOT have any metal there and you can look down and watch the road go by between the front fenders and the hood.

Below is a photo of a early Model N Runabout followed by a Model R Runabout both showing you can easily see the hood and there is not any sheet metal between the hood and the fender.





All the N,R,&S Runabouts have a slanted fender as it goes back down towards the ground. That helps prevent the water from coming up between the front fenders and the hood – but that does not work as well as having the metal go all the way between the front fender and the hood.



I called that metal on the S-Roadster a “splash apron.” There probably is a better term but that is how I quickly spotted that the fenders were the S Roadster rather than the S Runabout. Sorry for the confusion. But the S Roadster front fenders work much better for keeping the water off. Maybe the S Roadster is just a fender? If so what do I call the R & S front fender that does not have that piece of metal going down to the hood?

Again thanks to everyone for their inputs. If anyone has additional information about the original car that was posted on the HCCA site, please let John Stokes know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

Hi Hap,

Sorry I had not re-read your earlier posting, from before the photo of the car concerned appeared from Peter. However, re-reading it you do say that it looks to have Model S Roadster fenders (or mudguards as they are called in this neck of the woods). Sorry for any confusion.

On the matter of the splash guards, the confusion is largely attributable to my poor wording. Yes the slash guard is between the inside edge of the fender or mudguard, and the apron is the metal between the inside edge of the running boards and the bottom of the car body. I think that is also referred to by some as a valance?

Best wishes,

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 10:46 pm:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, I've always been under the impression that all N's, R's & S's were RHD.
Now I'm curious.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 02:27 am:

John it showed up on Trade Me ( a New Zealand site similar to ebay ) about 12 to 18 months ago. I was interested but it was just too similar to my 1910 Hupmobile in performance and useability for me to buy it without selling the Hupp which I really didn't want to do -so I passed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 08:44 am:

Rob,

You are correct that the production Model N, R, S, and SR were all right hand drive. There is no mention of left hand drive steering bracket in the price list of parts booklets and there is no mention of it in any advertisements that I have seen so far. And no mention of LHD pedals or transmission parts so the pedals could be moved to the other side. If anyone has or runs across some information different from that, please let us know. We are always learning new things about the old Fords.

Note, the Model N, R, S, & SR chassis was used to test out many of the concepts of the Model T Ford. For example many people in the 1907-08 timeframe thought that a removable cylinder head on a gasoline automobile engine was not practical. Many thought it would fail at the head gasket area too easily and not be reliable. Ford had a prototype cylinder block cast with a removable head that was designed to fit the standard Model N,R,S, & SR crankcase. It was fitted to a Model N Runabout that they field tested to see if their theory would or would not work. We don’t know if they produced only a single prototype engine or a few more. If anyone has additional information on when the prototype engine was produced and tested or how many were produced please let us know. Currently a single prototype N,R,S or SR engine with a removable head is still know to exist. That engine and transmission is now on display at the Piquette Plant and a photo of it is shown below taken when the engine was in a pickup truck at the Chickasha Antique swap meet. The thread at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/432292.html?1395951289 confirms it is the same engine that is now on display at Piquette.



And below is an excerpt from page 138 of Philip Van Doren Stern’s “Tin Lizzie.” It is from the “Oral History Program” an interview with Joseph Galamb one of the chief individuals involved with Henry Ford in the development of the Model T. The interview was conducted in the 1950s. It has the following quote:



I would guess that Henry Ford and others from Ford Motor Company would have also tested out the idea of putting the steering column on the left side of the car. They could have done that testing by driving other cars that were already available with LHD. Or they could have had one or more NRS&SR cars converted to left hand drive for that evaluation. Or they could have waited until they had a Model T Engine and chassis and used that. But I would not be surprised if there was a LHD prototype N,R,S, or SR based test vehicle demonstrating the LHD. Again that is all just a “GUESS” at this point. If anyone has any additional information to confirm, modify, or correct that guess, please let me know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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