OT - Honest, officer, I thought the speed limit was 40....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT - Honest, officer, I thought the speed limit was 40....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 11:10 am:

I absolutely love this photo (thank you Don W.!).

It may (or may not) be Gaston Plaintiff driving a Ford "Six". The photo is one of thousands of negatives taken by the New York Police Dept. Photo Unit and recently released to the public. The pic is taken near "Grant's Tomb" in N.Y.. The motorcycle is listed as an Indian.





This photo may be "staged," however the driver looks genuinely unhappy (I remember the feeling). Gaston Plaintiff did have a little history of speeding, and the driver does appear to generally look similar to this 1905-06 photo of Plaintiff:



Whether the driver is Ford Manager Plaintiff or not, we may never know. What we do know, from news coverage, is that Manager Plaintiff was in a similar position, with a motorcycle cop, at least once in 1908:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Hunt on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 12:10 pm:

The Motocycle looks like an Indian 638cc, 5HP twin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 12:23 pm:

1908 was the last year with the "camelback" tank on the rear fender, but there were some Indians made with a torpedo tank that year, looks like this is one of them?

Guess the police were proud when they finally got motorcycles that could catch fast cars (ok maybe not a 6-40 roadster out on a open road..) so maybe that's why the NY police took a photo? Or were the photos used as evidence?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 12:58 pm:

Rob,

That photo close up with the windshield frame running across his face is the same photo in your other thread "Is This The Same Man" so now you at least have a name for one photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 01:27 pm:

Thanks James and Roger for the cycle info. I don't know how this photo was used, maybe for training (where to stop a car and position your bike ?).

Denny, while it doesn't make a big difference, if it is Gaston Plaintiff, it adds to the story. I doubt the speeding charge is related to this pic because I don''t believe Merrick Road (where the article says Plaintiff was arrested) is near Grant's Tomb, it may be another stop. It also may be a staged pic, and possibly the Ford branch was asked to provide a car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 01:42 pm:

For motorcycle and police historians:



It looks like badge number 256. This Ford's license plate would have been issued in about September, 1907.



I think the bike is up on it's pegs:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Paulsen - McPherson, KS on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 02:07 pm:

Great photo. Actually, the NY plate is a 1910 state-issued plate. It is a steel plate with steel letters and numbers riveted to it. Pre-1910 would have been owner-made and, of course, could have been any number of varieties, including one similar to this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 02:35 pm:

He pulled him over to see if he had any extra doughnuts :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 02:51 pm:

Thanks Chris. I suspect this car was licensed in September 1907 because the "Brooklyn Life" news magazine began listing license plate numbers in late March 1908, beginning with October 1, 1907 and later registration/licenses. These are only licenses for Brooklyn and Long Island Burroughs so do not include all NY City licenses, but do give a representative idea of where the city was in issuing numbers. The beginning number is 47836. This is only 1551 numbers (registrations) higher than this Model K, (#46285) so I suspect this number was issued in September, 1907. Just my best guess.


Before this, "Brooklyn Life" listed licenses by name, address, and Make of car, but not license/registration number. For example, this list appeared in the December 28, 1907 issue. Unfortunately, no license number:


To add a little context, the "Teves" in "Teves and Hendricks" is Robert Teves, Ford dealer and driver of the Model K that leads the New York to Seattle racers out of New York in 1909, driving, of course, a Ford 6-40..... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 02:58 pm:

I should have added, it may be a 1910 or later photo, I don't know. I also don't know how quickly NY reissued numbers, or if they stayed with the original car for a long time (years?).

Much to learn. I'm also trying to find out more through the police sergeant. We know his badge number and rank, so may be able to pin down a time frame that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

Speaking of 6-40's Any progress to report?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Paulsen - McPherson, KS on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 03:18 pm:

Very interesting about the plate number. You are right about the number being issued in September 1907 being a very good guess.

I should have mentioned that if it were a pre-state issue (pre-1910) it would be black letters on a white background as required by NY state law. Most states were the reverse. The 1910 state-issued plates were white on a dark blue.

This makes me wonder if renewing registrations got to keep the same number in 1910 (and maybe beyond).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 04:17 pm:

Chris, thanks for the license plate info.
Amazingly, I had had call in to the New York archives office, and a young fellow just called back. He's looking for this pic in the archives as we speak. And, when I explained the type of car, he said, "my great-uncle has one." What are the odds?

I'm sure we'll learn more, and thanks again,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 05:26 pm:

HAS one? As in present tense, NOW? Is this an undiscovered K, or is the young man related to someone well-known in the hobby, or is this an error?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 08:10 pm:

Gil,
I about dropped my (not so) smart phone when he said it. I asked if his great uncle was still living, and he said he was. I asked if he still owned a Model K, and he said he did. He told me the name and it wasn't anyone I knew. Tomorrow we'll talk again and I'll get to the bottom of it. He also said his g-uncles father may have been the second owner, and that at one time it had been converted into a truck.

One never knows........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 08:14 pm:

Denny,
To answer your question, like my response, slowwwwww

:-(

Hopefully by the speedster reunion in Lincoln, late June.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 01:59 am:

Looks like Grant's Tomb in the background


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 09:56 am:

Who's buried there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 10:19 am:

I believe it is Steven Grant, an early LBGT activist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Nohava-Garretson, SD on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 03:25 pm:

Steve-No one...but U.S. Grant and his wife are entombed there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, April 10, 2015 - 03:29 pm:

Her name was Julia Dent Grant.


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