Nylon timing gear

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Nylon timing gear
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 09:43 pm:

Has anybody ever had a nylon timing gear fail? Please, no conjecture I would just like to hear the experiences of those who have actually used nylon gears.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 09:57 pm:

I have one in mine, the one that has the advance. No problems so far. Can't really say if it's helping but seat of pants might be better in lower range. Not a racer so keep the top speed down to 35ish. The cam ground to touring grind something like 180.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 10:11 pm:

On the 4th year as of now with nylon timing gear in the '23 cutoff pickup. Runs great.



Gonna be ordering the advanced degree nylon gear for current project engine rebuild, drop shipping it to the builder. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 10:11 pm:

I use them, have been for 7 years or so. I have one in each of my two MT500 cars. Both have radical lift cams and are driven hard. When not running in the 500 I run generators against them. One uses stock timing pin holes. The second car uses Model A cam holes which are spaced wider that Model T. I have had no failures. Tom Carnegie has had one fail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 10:22 pm:

I spent an unscheduled week in Trinidad, Colorado, when the nylon timing gear failed in a Chebby 350. I suppose it's better than a fiber gear (had one those fail too), but I feel better with original or bronze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 10:39 pm:

I always wondered about this. Why do people here run fiber, nylon, or aluminum gears? Is there something wrong with the original steel gears? Is noise the issue? I would think the steel gears are stronger. I have the Ford steel gear in mine. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 10:50 pm:

Dave, nothing the matter with a set of Ford gears, but N.O.S. are hard to find, and I have never seen used ones that I would put in a rebuild, can't set the back lash with what is required.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 11:09 pm:

The Nylon gear is more quiet compared to steel/bronze or aluminum.

The Nylon timing gear that Steve had fail is a sprocket style gear driven by a timing chain. The teeth are small in comparison to the model T Nylon timing gear teeth. By comparison, a "Chebby" 350 has much more valve spring pressure than a model T. Fiber timing gears were used in "Chebby" straight 6's for many years.


If you are using a model T generator or gear driven altenator.....I would stick to a metal timing gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Tuesday, April 14, 2015 - 11:27 pm:

Have two cars with lots of miles on them with the Nylon gear. I like the quietness. Both cars have generators


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 01:06 am:

A Model T making noise? Oh no, we can't have that! If you want a quiet car get a Packard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 01:08 am:

The nylon gear I had fail was operating a super radical cam in harsh conditions. Also, at the time, these gears were made poorly. The helix of the cam gear did not match the helix of the crank gear. I think the kind being made now are better.

Steve Coniff had a stock cast iron cam gear fail. I am now running a bronze gear and my motor sounds like a coffee grinder on steroids.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 01:54 am:

Steve, if you like cam gear noise ......try the straight cut gears that your 15 T originally came with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 04:09 am:

Steve,the Chevy nylon timing gears fail because the chain stretches as it wears and then breaks the teeth off. It's not the fault of the nylon teeth.I had a 454 that lost a rod bearing because of that, The nylon teeth plugged up the intake on the oil pump. That being said,I prefer original gears or bronze myself for a T. JMHO, Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 06:12 am:

I have over 6000 miles on an advance gear made by Jacque White. I like the performance and no problems. I do carry a N.O.S. Ford gear just in case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 07:43 am:

I have the original straight cut gears in my '17. Utterly quiet. Listen:
https://youtu.be/R5L2z0jkStI


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 10:21 am:

Royce,
You are the first that I know who are happy running straight cut gears.
My Dad who is 97 years and worked on many model T's early in his life found the straight cut gears to be noisy. Because of this, I have allways just changed the gears to beveled when rebuilding an engine.

I know it all comes down to how good the gear fit is....you can get away with more slop and still have quiet running gears using beveled gears like Ford used in later model T's.

Sorry I missed meeting you while in Kerrville. If you like good swap meets, come to next years meet in Bakersfield. Will have a cold beer waiting for you...or ice cream.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 10:38 am:

Royce's dad is 97 and bought that 17 about 1951. When Royce acquired the car from his dad it had only about 4000 miles. Spur gear noise depends on the quality of the gear, the contact ratio, and the accuracy of the enter distance. The involute tooth form on gears enable the teeth to roll from one tooth to the next. If all were perfect there would be no noise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 11:48 am:

A little off topic, but since nylon GM gears were mentioned....

You typically see them fail today in older unrebuilt engines. When I bought my low mileage '71 GMC six years ago, I replaced it as a precaution since they get brittle with age. It's not so much a mileage thing. It is completely intact and has cracks radiating from every tooth -- on the verge of failure. I keep it in my tool box for show-and-tell and would post a photo if it weren't so difficult.

When new they were good for many miles. Today people find these cars and trucks with unrebuilt engines, change the oil, drive them, and quite often do as mentioned above -- cook the engine as a result of bits of the gear clogging the oil pump screen before enough of the teeth come off sufficient that the engine will no longer run. This is not unique to GM. Lincoln used the same design in the late '60's and you still hear the occasional story.

While in post war cars they billed it as a measure to make things quieter, I can't hear the difference between the factory steel gears in my '60 Lincoln and the later Lincolns that used nylon.

It was once explained to me that it was really a cost saving measure. Steel gears have to be machined, but nylon gears are molded and they can spit them out a lot faster.

This isn't really relevant to the T discussion except to say that if it's a new nylon gear and the crank gear is smooth, all should be well. It's old brittle nylon that gives it a bad rap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 12:26 pm:

Another thought about using a Nylon gear. The original front oil line often get clogged due to lent/fibers from the brake bands and sludge if you are not using detergent oil. Nylon may last longer with little or no oil compared to using steel gears.
Something to consider or not!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

Has anybody used the advanced gear with a stipe 250 cam? What were the results?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Micheal Crowe on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 05:00 pm:

I had one fail me. Was not doing anything different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rose on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 05:29 pm:

model Ts are supposed to make noise and smell bad so that blind people can hate them too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 08:15 pm:

I have one with a Stipe 280 cam and no problems after 3 years. Its a driving a Texas T alternator to boot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

Stephen -- Yes. It's a great combination. Lotsa' torque for climbing hills.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, April 16, 2015 - 12:18 am:

Yes but i was running a gen as well after a 500 miles i swapped it back for orginal steel one


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, April 16, 2015 - 12:19 am:

Oh have one if anyone wants $5 plus shippng


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JOHN BEVARDOS on Thursday, April 16, 2015 - 12:51 am:

bob,Ill take the gear


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