Another band question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Another band question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne johnson on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 04:03 am:

Hello, I'm about to embark on the journey of changing bands for the first time in my 15 Roadster. I have not pulled the inspection cover yet to see what type of bands I have but in general, do you all recommend removing the top of the hogs head to change them. It seems like more work, but will make it more easy to change the bands without damaging them. Second question, after watching and reading all the videos I have not read or seen how loose or tight the bands should be before starting for the first time. It just says they should not drag. What should I check for that adjustment after everything is back in? If the hogs head is off, do I really need the band pulling tool? I know, these questions have probably been asked and answered once a week but I never read about the adjustment part. Thanks in advance. Wayne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 04:28 am:

1. Yes, pulling the hogshead will make it much easier to change the bands.
2. Yes, it is more work as you'll need to not only remove the hogshead, but will need to re-install it after your bands are changed, which is a process in itself, involving removing and replacing a bunch of nuts and bolts to remove and replace the hogshead, as well as sealing it when replacing it to prevent oil leaks.
3. Your bands should be fairly loose after replacement. You want to be sure they don't drag on the drums. You want full engagement of each band (without slippage) with your pedals about 1" - 1.5" from the floorboard.
4. If you pull the hogshead, you won't need the band pulling tool.

Note - You should soak your bands in ATF overnight prior to installing them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne johnson on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 04:38 am:

I guess it is off with it's head!! A good learning experience to physically see what is inside that thing. Thank you Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 06:51 am:

Wayne, pulling the hogs head is the only way you can change the early type of bands, unless you cut them in half to remove through the cover and then replace with the later removable ear ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 08:47 am:

The Ford shop manual says changing the new-style bands with the hogshead on should take forty minutes. It took me a couple of weeks. I'd work on it for a couple of hours, then quit to cool down and come back to it later. But having done it once, and having learned what to do and what not to do, I'm not afraid to do it again. But as Frank says, if you have the old-style bands the lid comes off. The book says that way takes 53 minutes, so it may be a three-week job. :-)

You can make a band puller from a piece of steel freight strap.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 09:36 am:

Wayne -- You do have one thing going for you: since you have a '15, presumably it has an aluminum hogshead. Those are much easier to handle during the remove/replace process than are the iron ones.

If you replace the band linings with Kevlar, adjust them as Dave said, so they tighten up no more than 1-1/2" from the floorboards. (Be sure the bands are round, with no sharper bends anywhere.) You can plan on adjusting them twice after that, then probably no more for a year or two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 09:49 am:

If you do remove the transmission cover to replace the bands by all means check and replace any worn parts in the transmission cover!
These can be the pedal shafts, slow speed notch, or the brake and clutch pedal supports.

You may not need to replace anything but I would check closely the slow speed notch as that is important in properly adjusting the clutch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 10:14 am:

I e found that I can do the job quicker and with minimal cursing, if I take the hogshead off. This is especially true with aluminum hogsheads. They tend to have very little clearance near the brake drum, making it all but impossible to attach that ear on a quick change band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 11:55 am:

When I built my 1915 I put wooden bands in there just so I would not have to change them again in my lifetime!

Lazy I know but it works for me. Never used Kevlar but their durability appeals to me. I understand that you need to be careful with Kevlar because if you get it too tight you can ruin drums with it fairly quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 05:49 pm:

I'd love to see the guy who can take the hogs head off then replace the bands and the hogs head in 53 minutes. Too bad there isn't a movie of that being done.. Without one I find it hard to believe!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 06:21 pm:

It all depends on how long a minute is.

I know of an engineer that thinks a minute is really 30 minutes in real time.

One other thinks it is a hour but he is Chinese. He told he could complete a project in 30 minutes when it really was about an week of work


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 07:19 pm:

There is a Ford advertisement that's been posted before that tells of a Ford mechanic that could do it in around 15 minutes! I believe his name was Joe.

It was telling of the ease of using the new detachable band ears!!

Its in the forum posts somewhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 07:53 pm:

I am in the process of changing my 1910 bands to Kevlar. Some things to consider. The Band Retaining Tool does not work on a 10 because the inspection plate is too small to allow for it's removal once the hogshead is installed. So I used the tool to hold the bands in place and then wrapped a string around the band ears to hold them in place while re-installing the hogshead. I will do this tomorrow.

Also, my bands next to the ears had not been drilled out to allow the rivet head to pass through to the actual metal band. I had to remove the very last factory rivet holding the ear to the band and drill it out. Otherwise the rivet would be too short.

I also believe it would have been easier if I had not soaked the bands first, as it is very difficult to work with oily hands. Next time I will soak the bands after they are installed and before mounting on the drums.

Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9xVyyKWaE

Be sure to install the rivets closest to the ears first, allowing only 1/4" of overlap. Allow the new lining to hump in the middle during this time. Then push the lining into place. This will keep the lining nice and tight for the remaining rivets.

Good Luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, April 18, 2015 - 09:03 pm:

I did the bands through the inspection door once. Never again. The next time, I took the hogs head off. It's more work but is a sure thing. My car is a '19 and has the iron cover and starter. It was still worth it. With the aluminum cover, the choice is easy.

What they meant in the Ford manual was 40 minutes of swearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Sunday, April 19, 2015 - 10:42 am:

"It all depends on how long a minute is."

The length of a minute depends on which side of the bathroom door that you're on.

YMMV

Talk slow, think fast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, April 20, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

Soaking the bands is an unnecessary and messy experience when installing Kevlar. With oily hands, it will also increase the risk of washers/nuts getting dropped (use the special nut/washer retaining tool sold by suppliers).

Kevlar does not "soak" up anything as does cotton. It will only retain that much liquid that capillary action will hold in the weave of the material. That said, if you will drain the oil prior to the change and when finished installing bands loosely, reintroduce 3 1/2 - 4 quarts of fresh oil into the transmission via the transmission door. Start by pouring 1 qt slowly and thoroughly wet the bands. Wait a bit and add some more. Repeat. Adjust bands. When you're done, close the whole thing up and start car and let it idle for a few minutes. Go easy on low/reverse/brake for 5-10 minutes and you're good to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne johnson on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 01:24 pm:

Thanks everybody, got them out and changed. Now I'm trying to replace the return springs but can't figure out how to get the high/low spring off? Not sure what is holding it together?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne johnson on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 01:31 pm:

Thanks everybody, got them out and changed. Now I'm trying to replace the return springs but can't figure out how to get the high/low spring off? Not sure what is holding it together?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 04:33 pm:

What on earth is the "high/low spring" ?
Is it the spring on the low pedal?
Please advise...


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