T Block With Model A Crank

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: T Block With Model A Crank
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 07:42 pm:

How far do you grind the mains down to make this swap?
Are there any articles around about this ?
Thanks for any help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 07:56 pm:

Bob
I've never ground them at all. You need special main caps that are available from the usual suppliers
What is your plan to deal the length issue? The A crank is about 5/8" longer on the back end
The two usual options are;
A. Move the block ahead
B. Shorten the back end of the crank
I've done both


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 08:02 pm:

My plan is to move the block ahead.
I'm making the caps.
How did you shorten the back of the crank?
Thanks for the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 08:13 pm:

The distance between the holes in the block at the mains is 1.750 You can bore the block and larger caps out to 1.700. Larger caps are sold by the vendors, I like the ones DMC (Dan) makes. Do the math, a crank that has 1.590 mains will in up with about .055 lay of babbitt for a bearing surface.
Hope that helps


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 08:19 pm:

Bob
Moving the block ahead works fine
I "stretched " the pan under the block. I used two "not wonderful " pans. You can buy a aluminum casting to bolt to the back of the block so the "hogshead " can seal against it. This piece is available to accept a VW oil pump if you decide to go pressure
At the front of the pan I moved the front bracket from the "outside " of the pan stamping to the "inside " This way I didn't have to disturb front seal dam
I can post some pictures if you want
To shorten. I have my own "unique " method using a heated and pressed taper fit. No welding and so far no failures either


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 08:22 pm:

Further to Mike's posting, I have fit one that was standard 1.625" size. Sure the Babbit is thin, but that way it is stronger


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 09:27 pm:

Thanks Les & Mike.
Thin Babbitt sounds good to me.
I'd like to see some pics of your method of shortening the crank, Les.
Who sells the spacer for the back of the block?
Thanks again guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 09:46 pm:

Bob- contact me via a private message and I can help you with the caps, spacer for the block and the pan. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 09:49 pm:

Thin Babbitt is OK if you have a oil filter system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 10:09 pm:

Frank
Thin here is a relative term.
Bob
If you shorten the crank then you don't need to stretch the pan.
Either way you need to "dimple " the pan for rod bolt clearance
Are you planning to drill for oil pressure?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, April 23, 2015 - 10:51 pm:

I don't think I'm going to drill for oil pressure.
This thing is just for me to play with not for anything serious.
I have a Fronty head that I need to do something with and I broke a crank in my "daily driver" last year.
That's what got this going.
I built a main bearing Babbitt/bore setup per Vic Zannis' book.
I have a Rajo on a stock T engine in a speedster that's been going strong for ten years or so.
Dan, message on the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 02:26 am:

Bob, have you done the Maths pricewise on this? One thing leads to another to another and before long it gets away from you. With a Scat crank available with oversize journals, how much easier/cheaper/more expensive is it to go this route?
My last standard T crankshaft re-grind was near $400, which would not be needed if fitting a Scat crank. For me, freight and the exchange rate made it too costly, but you don't have those worries.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 02:27 am:

Bob, have you done the Maths pricewise on this? One thing leads to another to another and before long it gets away from you. With a Scat crank available with oversize journals, how much easier/cheaper/more expensive is it to go this route?
My last standard T crankshaft re-grind was near $400, which woulkd not be needed if fitting a Scat crank. For me, freight and the exchange rate made it too costly, bt you don't have those worries.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 09:54 am:

Allan
Further to your "math" issue
Shortening the crank; I have a guy who has done mine to my design for $250.00
Grinding. I'm surprised it cost you that much, but OK
The rest of the installation is the same
Drilling for oil. About 2-3 hours plus a NEW 5/32 high quality x 5" long drill bit. Bob doesn't want to go there and that's cool


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 11:01 am:

My crank was a freebie that has been ground .030 US and worn some more.
I think .040 or .050 US will work fine for this setup.
Me....a cheapskate?? NAW!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 11:16 am:

Bob
No point in wasting money!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 03:37 pm:

some pictures as promised

side view

and of course the end view


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 03:41 pm:


Note the "odd" spacing of the bolt holes. This pan still needs to have new holes drilled in the pan for the back block bolt holes

Showing the front mount welded "inside" the pan nose


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 05:19 pm:

Interesting and helpful!
Thanks Les.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 08:19 pm:

Les, I was surprised with the charges too. In their defence, it included a hot tank and crack testing, dressing the seal area at the front and truing up the flange at the rear. All up, $373.65.

You mention that you fit the rear flange to the A crank without welding. What degree of taper do you use and is the flange scotch screwed once in place?

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 24, 2015 - 08:54 pm:

Allan
I use a 3/4" per foot taper (a popular industry standard).
The hub (4140 Q&T material) is made oversize all over.
The crank is then hung in a press.
The hub is then heated to about 400-500 F (well below the transition temperature).
The hub is then pressed on and left to cool thoroughly.
Then it is machined all over and drilled etc.
The guy doing it for me wanted to add the two set screws. I don't believe they do any good, but they don't hurt either.
After it is all done we share glass of good Scotch Whiskey!! We don't screw around when we do things!!


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