Just riveting!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Just riveting!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 06:46 am:

Could someone explain to me the right way to install body rivets. (The way that worked for them) I have been online looking, and I can't really find the right video of how to install the body rivets. I can find out how to rivet just about everything, I don't need to.

I am about to start to rivet, the T strips & rain gutters back onto my '27 coupe body. Every video I found, hits the rivets on the head (dome end), and used the buck on the other end (blind side) to flatten. But those are for all aluminum rivets for aircraft.

That way won't work for the ones in the door jam, on the "A" pillars, the jam side needs be flat, into the countersunk hole. Can't hit all of then on the back side, to flatten the jam side.

Thanks, Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 09:31 am:

You might contact Wayne Murray and see how he did it. He put together a beautiful 27 Coupe from several donor cars. Unless the car is down to factory assembly state, some of the rivets are nearly impossible to get to. And the factory had special tools like rivet crimpers.

Wayne Murray's Profile: http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profil e=raecing40-users


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 09:33 am:

Also, here's a forum thread with a few pictures of his project.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/210172.html?1304858610


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Dix on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 10:02 am:

As ken said, the rivets in Model T bodies were installed by squeezing them with a hydraulic tool. The Head was held by a jaw and the opposite jaw had a knurled pattern. When the rivet was installed it ended up with the "waffle" pattern on the back side.
Bodies were assembled in a certain order and when we restore the cars it's sometimes difficult to get to the back side of the rivet in place.
It's relatively easy to make a countersunk head on a rivet, if that side is more accessable. Also it is sometimes necessary to anneal, heat and allow to cool naturally, a rivet to make it more workable.
Of course if you're assembling a body or frame, put it together first with bolts and align everything, then replace bolts one at a time with rivets.
Jim Dix
Big Flats NY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 10:22 am:

Thanks Jim. Yes, "rivet squeezer" not crimper. Don't know how that slipped out of my typing fingers. Too much sheet metal on the brain, I guess. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Sunday, May 03, 2015 - 05:43 pm:

I understand that the original rivets were squeezed into place. What I need to know is, which way has someone done theirs, when they replaced rivets. I'm not building a judged car, just want to get my rivets in right, and to hold tight.

I can not get the air hammer to the back side to rivet them.

Do put the rivet in from the outside, and hammer the rivets on the head, with the buck behind, to flatten the end.

Or, do I put the rivet in from inside, and hammer the end of the rivet to flatten (shape) it, with the buck on the head of the rivet, behind.

Also, do I need to heat the end of the rivet, just before hammering it.

Thanks, Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Sunday, May 03, 2015 - 07:04 pm:

Steve Jelf posted about riveting the front crossmember on. As I remember it was a pretty good post. I searched and couldn't find. Maybe Steve will join in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 09:25 am:

Did you get a response from Wayne? By his pictures, he's done exactly what you are trying to do.

I don't have one to look at but you need to do what ever is necessary. Use two wedge bucks or a tapered buck on the inside and hammer from the outside. The length of the rivet may need to be adjusted and you'll need to use a flat hammer die to force the rivet into the countersink.

Practice on a piece of scrap. Drill it and countersink it. Try it a couple of times. If you use the same thickness of scrap, you can get the length of the rivet just right and not have to do any flush grinding.

I've done some blind D-nuts that had to be fished through channels or inside doors then come up with a way to get a buck behind them. It's not always easy but where there's a will, there's a way. I probably made enough one-use bucks to fill a bucket. And they don't have to be tool steel unless you're going into production. I've made bucks from 3/8" flats. Whatever it takes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 09:54 am:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/344478.html?1362178619

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

Thanks for looking that up Mark.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 09:43 pm:

LOL... Yes, that would be very useful if Pat was working on the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Wednesday, May 06, 2015 - 08:57 am:

Ken,
I sent Wayne a PM back on the 1st, when you posted it. I have not received a answer yet. His profile say's he has not been on since the 27th. But I was in the hospital, had a surgery on my stomach, and just got back home last night.

Thanks, Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Wednesday, May 06, 2015 - 08:59 am:

Mark,
Thanks for searching for me. But I am working on the body, with the smaller rivets.

Thanks, Pat


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