Modern Pinion Bearing Kit Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Modern Pinion Bearing Kit Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Mulrooney, Webster, NY on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 05:19 pm:

Greetings All,

I hope everyone is enjoying the nice weather and I hope our Friends in the Midwest are faring the storms ok!

I have a bit of a dilemma that I hope someone else has solved. A few weeks ago I dismantled my rear end and drive shaft assembly on Annie (1916 Touring). Much to our surprise the Thrust washers had already been updated... It still had the original pinion bearing so I decided to install one of the modern units. What I did not realize was that the modern setup I was installing was for the newer 1921 - 1927 cars. When I attempted to install the driveshaft assembly to the rear end, the gear did not seat all the way and there was a distinct clicking when the drive shaft was turned from side to side. I spoke with one of the techs at my favorite T Parts Supply stores and was told it was possible to install the newer pinion replacement set on an older car but not vice versa. The drive shaft this unit came off of had 4 shims installed between the gear and the pinion so I dismantled everything and installed the shims and reassembled. Perfect... now the gears fit together nicely.... however now the u-joint "pin hole" is approximately 3/16 to 1/4" shy (towards the rear end) from lining up with the hole in the torque tube to insert the pin. I understand what has happened to cause the issue but am at a loss to figure out how to correct it. I am prepared to buy a correct, new/refurb Modern Bearing unit, but was hoping to use what I currently have. I did search the forum but there wasn't anything specific to this issue. Any suggestions would be, as always, greatly appreciated!

Patrick Mulrooney


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 05:29 pm:

Start over patrick, with the right parts, there is no other way.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 05:57 pm:

If your original parts are in good shape, why not use them ? Call who ever made your modern setup and kick it around with them. Maybe he will swap it out for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 07:56 pm:

Seriously, John Regan's modern pinion bearing set-up makes the job so easy I wouldn't go any other way. When I rebuild my other car's axle this summer, that's the way I am going because the first one was so easy to get right the first time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 09:13 pm:

I'm with Kevin on this one. I've used several of John's bearing kits and they are great.

http://www.funprojects.com/search.aspx?querystr=pinion%20bearing&querytype=all


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 09:18 pm:

Not to mention the fact that John is a great guy, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 10:16 pm:

I like the originals but if you are going to update reagan's is the way to go, some of the others out there look as if some thing could come loose then you would have some serious issues to deal with. Had an older friend that had a modern bearing set up but had used some one else, he lost a drive shaft on a hill with a fordor, car went backwards before ending up on it's top, luckily no serious medical problems but the car was junk. He opened the rear up and bearing issues happened to overheat and weaken the shaft causing the break.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 10:24 pm:

I've never used a u joint pin in tens of thousands of miles when using the modern cartridge bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, May 09, 2015 - 11:51 pm:

I have never used anything other than the original factory parts that were designed for a given year. Never have had a problem. My advice: stick with what is supposed to be original to your 1916.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 12:06 am:

Larry, i appreciate your fervent purist view, but sometimes the parts made today are far superior than that of 100 years ago, and in this case, you could never tell from looking at the outside that there was a nice new modern bearing lurking inside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Mulrooney, Webster, NY on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 10:30 am:

Ok Gents... John Regan it is.

Larry, I am not dismissing your comment as I also like to keep things as original as possible, however my mechanical skills are such that the modern pinion will be much easier for me to install... heck I had it apart and back together several times in the course of an hour the other night trying to figure out what the heck was going on. :-)

So in looking at John's website (Thank you Mike) I see 2 options, one being adjustable. Any recommendations between the 2?

Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Mulrooney, Webster, NY on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 11:21 am:

Thanks everyone and Mike for the link. I have reached out to John and will be ordering a new set from him.

Larry, I do try to keep the car as original as possible. I just simply do not have the mechanical skills for certain things, though I am learning. The modern pinion (even the wrong one) was simple enough to install that even a computer tech could do it :-) .

Thank you all again for the advice!

Patrick Mulrooney
Webster, NY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 12:16 pm:

Patrick -- There is no need to get the adjustable one. John sets up the non-adjustable one just right. He told me he makes the other one available for folks who "just like to fool with things." :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Mulrooney, Webster, NY on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

Thanks Mike. I appreciate it much! I will be placing the order tomorrow. I am soooo looking forward to getting back on the road.

Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 08:51 pm:

The problem is not that the modern set up performs better than the original or vice versa. Each is fine in that regard. The problem is you can't find decent original style roller bearings. You can get a new DS, a new inner and outer sleeve, but not the original style roller bearing with the spiral grooves. Larry, you have a number of original Hyatt bearings, but you may be the only one out there that does. I was lucky enough to stumble on 4 NOS myself, but I've used them all up. Without a good original you have two choices 1. The modern style offered by Doctor John or 2. The original style set up using a solid roller bearing. I can see why most are opting for the modern set up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 10:14 am:

If you've ever had the inner sleeve "blow up" as I have, you'd be looking for an alternative. Having a piece of the sleeve run through your ring and pinion gears makes a noise you won't forget. I don't know whether they get "work hardened" or what, but they seem to be very brittle and prone to breaking. Since that unpleasant experience several years ago, I have used lots of John's pinion bearing kits and am very satisfied with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 10:47 am:

One design problem I can think of with the original inner sleeve is the square cut for the edge of the key. The modern replacements have rounded edges so I don't think that is an issue any more. I, as with Mike, have experienced inner sleeve failure, but those have all been Ford installed pieces. Those have either cracked and broken at an edge of the square cut or worked loose on the DS. The latter shouldn't be a problem for today's restorer if there is a small interference fit between the sleeve and the DS. I use .0005". I've never had any failures on rear ends I've restored using the original set up. I wish I could find good Hyatt bearings. I'd be willing to pay $100 for a truly NOS bearing (rollers .562-.563")


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 11:44 am:

I recently pulled apart the rear end for my '13 roadster. It is the only one I've ever seen where the inner sleeve wasn't cracked around the pinion bearing sleeve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 12:24 pm:

I'm playing with the later improved Fords. The three complete unrestored driveshafts I've disassembled has all had bad Hyatt bearings but good inner sleeves with rounded cuts for the key. Maybe the sleeves were improved for the last years of production?

I've fitted a Fun project bearing for the roadster, my best Hyatt with a NOS outer spool in my pickup and there will be a second rate Hyatt in the garden tractor I'm collecting parts for. Any more road cars will get Fun project bearings, it's just about impossible finding good driveshaft Hyatts over here. I wonder when the Montana 500 association will be forced to allow modern driveshaft bearings due to lack of supply?


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