What did I do wrong?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: What did I do wrong?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 10:12 pm:

I replaced the low band shaft with a new one. It was made wrong so I bought another one that matched the old one correctly. I also ordered a new low speed notch and support.

Now as you can see from the picture that I have to adjust the slow speed connection so the threads are screwed in tight in order to match the connection holes. I can move the car in neutral by pushing it and yet it can't be adjusted and properly shifted. When I move along in high and try to slow down and clutch down to low it just kills the motor.

I'm tired of problems with this car and need some advice! What do I not see?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 10:26 pm:

I think you still have a problem with the low speed notch. It seems the pedal doesn't go back as far as it should. With the hand brake off, is the low pedal even with the brake pedal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 11:11 pm:

John, it wasn't until I bent it back some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 11:21 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/15948.html
Bending the pedal does not change where low neutral or high engages. I have one of the wrong made ones in my car and still made it work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 10:20 am:

You may need to adjust the 3 clutch push screws.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 10:39 am:

If you don't have one I suggest buying the Ford Service Manual, most everything you need to know is between the covers for cars made from about 1919 to 1927 including how to setup and adjust the bands and clutch.
You should have 11/16 between the face of the drive plate and clutch finger with the clutch engaged as a base to start with. Start there then adjust the link as shown in the link I provided. See if that works.
All three fingers need to be set the same, with in reason as there is only one hole through the finger to lock the screw. If the clutch slips after adjusting, screw each adjuster in half a turn and test. Do not drop any cotter pins in and don't forget to replace them with new ones when you are done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 11:17 am:

I have bought two low speed notches and low speed cams for two different cars. I also bought new shafts for both. I have found that the holes were drilled wrong and the pedal does not come back far enough. In one case, I bent the pedal. In the other case, I filed the notch until the pedal came back far enough to operate the high gear clutch properly. I filed only the back side where the pedal rests when the car is in high gear. This would leave about one inch slack between the high gear position and the point where the band begins to depress. After adjusting the low band so that the low operates about 1 1/2 inch above the floor board, I then adjust the link to operate the high clutch.

The problem with the pedal not coming back far enough is that you will notice the link moves the clutch lever downward to disengage the clutch and then when you continue to move the pedal into the low position, the low clutch stays at the same position as it is when in neutral. Now if the pedal all the way back is in the neutral position (which it will be until the notch is filed) the adjustment of the link makes no difference because the lever is already past the point where it will operate the clutch.

Bending the pedal will not fix that problem. The problem is in the lever at the bottom to which the link is attached. That lever needs to be farther forward when the pedal is in the high position.

I understand what I am trying to say, but might not be able to explain it to the reader. Anyway filing the notch on the back side to let the pedal come back farther fixes the problem.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Monday, May 11, 2015 - 12:15 pm:

I think the problem lye's in the pedal position as you guys point out. I will check the 11/16 setting but if you look at the picture you can see I can barely get the connection made. I have some experience with 6 T's, bible and the forum. This car has been a nightmare since I pulled the motor and found the pan ears were welded to the frame!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:13 am:

Please read that again. It should be 13/16th of an inch not 11.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:20 am:

My bad, yes 13/16. 13/16, 13/16 keep saying that to myself! That is the correct distance the finger should be from the drive plate. Thank you William for the correction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:21 am:

It would appear to me that the linkage is too short. But maybe it's the angle the picture was taken.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:32 am:

Yes William, the linkage is too short. Mark, I did catch the mistake of 13/16, no harm. However, the distance is much more then that. I called the engine builder and asked him about that. He said he uses spring tension (2 inches) to set the clutches up. This measured exactly 2 inches. Why the difference I don't know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:42 am:

For now forget where the pedal heads are in relation to each other. Are you sure the clutch through out is in the correct slot and that you have installed the correct notch on the inside? With the link disconnected and the inspection cover off, what happens when you press the pedal? Are you getting the correct rotation to compress the band.
If so; with the link still removed and the clutch engaged, set the clutch then follow the instructions in the link I posted. I find it easier to have the car jacked up and turn the rear wheel to bring each finger up to adjust, but if you have room, rolling the car will do the same thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 12:16 pm:

What did the "engine builder" install for a clutch pack ? And, what/who's spring ?

I'd have to go out & compare non-starter (attachment point for clevis is straight down) to starter (has bend to clear Bendix can) equipped low pedals but yours has had obvious "heat " applied to bend it for some reason ! Perhaps someone did some "adjusting" at that point on your low pedal and now something is out of alignment or changed the geometry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 01:42 pm:

Steve, I told the engine builder to use the original clutches. The spring is used and passed inspection. The top of the pedal was bent by me to clear the boards and Doesn't change anything. The bottom was heated to clear the starter can. The problem is the length of the connector link. With the lever forward in high gear I can see that the linkage doesn't move the clutch lever enough to disengage the high speed clutch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 06:38 pm:

Looking at your photo, it sure looks as though the pedal linkage geometry is way off. I'm assuming this is on your '14 touring ? Any way to get a photo from the side ? Did you electrify this car (or had it done) and used the original C lettered pedal ? Lots of questions but something is really haywire there ! I'm going out to pull the floor boards in my '14 (which was also electrified for the old timer before me) and see where my pedal position is in relation to the clutch throw-out shaft & linkage - I'll be baaccch ! (Arnold)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 01:30 pm:

After reviewing this adjustment on several of my T's - when the pedal is in high (pulled back) with the h.b. lever forward, the appendgage at the bottom of the pedal should be angled towards the engine near 2/3rds of the length of the Bendix can - make sense ? If your pedal shown above is in the high position, you definitely have a geometry issue. I don't even know if one can actually replace the trans. cover with the clutch fork in the rear slot of the clutch collar ?????????? I'm assuming you removed the cover to replace the pedal shaft and accompanying hardware ??????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 01:33 pm:

Take a photo of the clutch spring area including where the clutch fork inserts into the clutch collar - might make it a lot easier to make an educated determination !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 01:58 pm:

Lance - your clutch pedal looks like at some point the bottom portion was either damaged or cut off and then welded/repaired. It looks really long compared to all of the other photos I can bring up of other clutch pedals.

If you have the top of the pedal pulled all the way towards the rear of the car, then besides the bottom arm being too long, the angle looks incorrect as well - that's the main culprit. It needs to be further forward so that when you push the pedal in, the arm actually pushes the linkage down.

Here is pic to illustrate


When viewing bottom of clutch pedal from the driver's side of vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 02:02 pm:

Thanks for the additional drawing, Seth.

All of my pedals both on & off the cars are as shown in the middle position.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 02:32 pm:

Same on my one T Steve. I believe the center one is "correct".

Lance if you look at your pedal and it matches the center picture that I drew, meaning the lower portion of your clutch pedal arm lines up with the upper portion, you probably have something else going on. Would be worth pulling the inspection cover of hogshead to verify position of clutch fork.


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