Gas Headlight Tube Routing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Gas Headlight Tube Routing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 12:57 am:

I'm trying to gradually bring my (RHD) T back to original 1913 specs. My next project is to correctly pipe up the gas generator to the gas headlights I have the kit from Synders . Can some one please give me the correct way to rout the pipes including position of rubber hoses and copper T etc Thanks Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:34 am:

Karl,

I have a LHD with gas lights I use. Also, I have wondered if the approach is the same on the RHD and since nobody has jumped in, I'll start it.

Do you have original splash apron and running boards? Mine (July 1913) are factory punched for the generator and hose.

Is your radiator gas tube set up for the right frame rail gas line?

The LHD radiator has the "T" to connect the gas line soldered on the left side of the radiator. I assume the RHD radiator has the "T" on the right side. Is that what you have on your car?

Also, the radiator should be punched for the gas hoses that run to each of the headlight buckets. Is that what you have?

The left frame rail is drilled for the clamps that hold the brass gas line from the generator hose forward to near the radiator on the LHD's. I assume the RHD's have the other rail drilled for the little clamps.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 11:39 am:

Since you want things original, here goes: The Ford drawings, dated in July of 1912, show the complete gas lamp plumbing system as follows: beginning at the end of the hose from the generator, there is an assembly of 5 pieces designated T-4062, "gas lamp tube assembly, rear." This is 44" long overall and is made up of two short end pieces, T-4819, that are each 1-7/8" long; two straight sleeves, 1/2" long, and a straight piece of tubing 40-1/8" long. The ends of the short tubes have a small bulge to help retain the hoses. These short pieces and the ends of the long piece are slipped into the ends of the sleeves and the whole thing is soldered together.

(I suspect that by 1914 the assembly was replaced with a single piece of brass tubing.)

This assembly is placed along the frame rail, and a short piece of hose at the front end connects it to the T-4052 gas lamp tube assembly that is soldered to the radiator. This assembly comes with new radiators and has usually survived with originals, but if you need details of its construction let me know and I will post those as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

Ken -Just to complicate things My car was originally left hand drive and was converted to RHD
and an Australian body . The Generator (and driver) are on the right -The right scuttle and both sides of the radiator are punched for the gas lines . The T is on the Right of the inner Radiator ( Probably was changed over when the car was converted) . I haven't looked at the frame but would suspect that if it does have mounting holes on the right it will also have the originals on the left


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

Sorry Ken I meant right splash apron not scuttle-Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 08:35 pm:

My Car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 09:49 pm:

Are the clamps used to hold the brass gas line to the frame the same as the type used for the fuel line, or are they entirely different? If they are different, might anyone have a picture of them? Thank you, Bill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:05 pm:

Here is a picture of the gas tubing clamp, that I believe, Kim Dobbins had made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 12:30 am:

Karl,

Those little clamps bolt to the frame with a small bolt and square nut on the bottom. There is a cotter pin in the bolt. They hold the brass gas line R.V. describes above.

The hole in the apron is on the flat space between the running board and a turn up of the apron. It is in line with the two rear generator mounting holes in the running board and has a rim around it to protect the hose.

You have the "T" on the right, so just a hose down to the 44" gas tube and a hose up to the "T" on the radiator. Two hoses to the headlamps and that's it.

I will add a copy of the instructions sheet in case someone doesn't have it or already know how to use the generator.



The original was in a NOS generator.

I use a Prest-O-Lite tank instead of a generator but the plumbing on the car from the factory is probably the same.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 01:03 am:

Karl-
In 1913 the radiator had a cross over tube attached to the support bar. With a RHD I would expect the T end to be on the right side, instead of the left. The same, but a mirror image. Here is how it is on my 1911:



Send me your e-mail address and I can e-mail you some photos.

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 01:18 am:

Here is a diagram of the cross over tube:

http://www.thebrassworks.net/shop/p524/09-14-Model-T-gas-light-tube/product_info .html?osCsid=4d989b497403d68122ccc7a1c7f0998b


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 01:29 am:



I believe I harvested this from Steve Jelf.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 12:54 pm:

Here is a detail (sorta) shot from a factory photo of an early '14 chassis. Unfortunately the ends of the gas line aren't visible but you can see the clamp and where it is bolted to the frame. Notice how the line runs along the inside of the frame after it passes through the clamp and then behind the crankcase arm block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 01:27 pm:

R.V.,

Great photograph.

I have the same clamp at that location with the same orientation. The gas line has to go around the engine mount to get to the forward area. Clamp is shaped like a laying down "P" and sits on top of the lower inside frame rail. Only the nut and cotter pin are below the frame.

RV, Do we know how many clamps were used?

Ken In Houston


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 02:56 pm:

I'm pretty sure it was just one, but if there was a second clamp it would have been up near the front end of the line where the hose attached. In the photo, the angle of the line reveals that there wasn't one used between the generator and the handbrake clamp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 04:47 pm:

RV,

I only have the one you showed in the photo. I thought I might be missing one but it really isn't needed.

The gas line is not a tight fit in the clamp so it was probably just to keep it away from the brake shaft & cam. The gas hose actually kept it in place, front to back.

Thank you.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 05:11 pm:

Ward Sherwood,

Thank you so much for the picture of the gas line clamp! That is just what I need. And a thank you to Ken Parker for the notation about the bolt, square nut ant the cotter pin.

I'll have to figure out how to make the small bulge at the end of the lines which help to retain the hose.

This is all great information. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 06:44 pm:

Here is an original clamp, bolt and nut from my 1912 touring. It is a fine thread 1/4" X 28 square head bolt with a drilled shank. The shank measures 3/4" long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 07:57 am:

Royce,

Thank you for this detail. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 08:41 am:

Royce,

Was the rear gas tube assembly under the lower frame rail on your 1912 like Keith showed on his 1911?

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 06:48 pm:

Ken,

The tubing was gone, but the clamps were in place under the frame, so it looks like it was identical to Phil Mino's car, which Keith used as a reference for his installation.

Whoever restored (I use that term loosely) my 1912 40 years ago left the clamps in place when they painted the chassis. The bolts still had tiny rusty little cotter pins in them, covered with that lovely pink enamel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 04:11 pm:

Bill,

I made up a new rear gas line for my car today. I had to make a connection in the 1/4" brass tube to make it 44 inches long as RV has said. The splice sleeve was two inches long out of 9/32" brass tube. I made the bulge on the tube ends with a 1/4" Ferrell and soldered it all together.



When you slide the hose over the tube you can barely see where the bulge is but it will work fine with a brass clamp. The hose is what the vendors are currently supplying.



The way that rear gas line tube sits in the car makes the rear end the lowest point of the gas plumbing. If you are running a generator, you may want to use that as the drain point and just slide the tubing on a couple of inches without a clamp.

Uniweld has a brass clamp, HC02, that I am going to use on this 44 inch tube. Running the Prest-O-Lite tank, there isn't any water or carbide residue in the acetylene lines.

The strap in RV's picture above looks like what I have in my car. I believe it is not much more than half the thickness of the one Royce shows and the brass tube is rather loose when in it. Like a lot of other things Ford did, 2 cents here and 2 cents there cheaper. If I can take it off without breaking it, I will measure it and take a picture.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 04:44 pm:

Wow; your "fabricated" bulge looks extremely close to Ford's. That's pretty clever! Here is detail from the LH end of the radiator tube drawing:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 06:01 pm:

Thank you RV. That does resemble the look. My gas line was gone so I didn't know what it looked like on those ends so I must admit I am more lucky than clever. I had bought some 1/4" brass tube from the hardware store a month ago. The 9/32" fits good as a sleeve so I had it too. I knew it had to be longer than 36" which was what the stock piece of tube was.

Bill was wanting a bump and the Ferrell came to mind this morning. You told us how long the tube was so I put off putting off and made it up before lunch. The hose does fit well. I thought about crimping the Ferrell on the ends but soldered it since I needed to solder the sleeve on.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 10:18 pm:

I have an original gas line from a '13 touring, and it has one clamp. My roadster has one clamp too, but no gas line.


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