5 Terminal Dash Wiring Block

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 5 Terminal Dash Wiring Block
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Corts on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 09:27 am:

I had a question about the history of the 5 terminal junction block on the model t. Does anyone know the year or about the year they stopped using the 5 terminal block and went to 6.

I have a fairly well documented original early 1922 model year car (November 1921 engine date) that has the original dash and a 5 terminal block.

Can anyone shed some light on the history of the 5 vs 6 block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 09:42 am:

Hal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 09:49 am:

I have a 1919 with the 5 terminal junction block. How were they wired? The cut-out is on the firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:07 am:

My 21 had the 5 terminal block. Even without the cutout on the fire wall the output wire from the generator went right to the amp meter, no break at the terminal block. So I would say sometime after 1921.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:52 am:

Just finished redoing a low firewall(metal) and it had a six terminal strip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:56 am:

The wiring diagram Ford published in December 1921 shows a six terminal block. This would be the '22 model year. If that helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:58 am:

Just finished redoing a low firewall(metal) and it had a six terminal strip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 12:11 pm:

Never heard of a cutout on the firewall. Any photos?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 12:16 pm:

The early 1919s had the cutout on the firewall. The ends of the terminal block were rounded and used machine screws, not wood screws. The two end holes used wood screws to mount it to the firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 03:34 pm:

1- There are 22's that have it/don't have it...I have never found an actual cut-in date and it is obvious there was huge overlap...
2- The original electrified did have the cut-out on the firewall...at some point it went generator mounted and previous digging implies there was overlap there too.
3- There is a valid view that 99.9% of all open cars prior to 1922 were NOT electrified...but every time someone tries to follow that line of reasoning, they get castrated...
4- My own summation having looked at this several times over the years is that the 6 terminal strip system 'probably' came with the factory installed dash...but that is just a hunch.

Richard Gould spent some time early last year trying to make an early 19 as correct as possible to sell it...here is a pic he posted then of the firewall mounted cutout...






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 06:32 pm:

Thanks for the photo...something new to me. How was it wired...don't see anything coming from the harness. Would like to see some more reliable detail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 07:21 pm:

I have two of the rectangular cut outs that supposedly mounted on the generater. They are Ford script.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:34 pm:

Here is the picture of the firewall. The cut out is on the lower left of the firewall. The wiring was in extremely poor condition, but the car did run.


Cut Out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:38 pm:

Another picture


Firewall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:42 pm:

5 junction terminal block



Terminal Block


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 10:59 pm:

Here is the motor number off the car; 2,957,975; March 1919. I have pulled the engine, steam cleaned engine/frame (96 years of grease, grime, mud) replaced gaskets so to stop oil leaks, put in a new firewall, and all wiring. Finished this last week but have not tried to start it yet.
This is a 1919 Centerdoor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - 11:12 pm:

Larger picture


cut out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 09:59 am:

Chuck,
Thanks for posting the photos...gives a clear picture of the installation. Need to preserve this arrangement as it is apparently rare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 10:44 am:

You can also see the separate generator wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 03:46 pm:

I am installing the wiring on the c-door. Hereís my theory: This car had the cut-out mounted on the fire wall with one wire to the generator and one wire to the ammeter; so no need to hook it up to the Terminal Block, hence only needed 5 terminals. Newer cars with the cut-out mounted on the generator had a wire directly to the terminal block, then from the terminal block to ammeter; so needed another terminal, so 6 terminals ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 03:52 pm:

I would have liked to kept the original fire wall, but it was in six pieces held together by plywood screwed to it. I will have to drill a hole in the new firewall for the cut-out mounted on the firewall to keep the appearance the same. i bought a new 6 terminal block, but took it off and put on the old 5 terminal one. The 5 terminal one had machined screws at the contacts, better than the new one i purchased, which used wood screws for the contacts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 04:06 pm:

Bingo, separate wire = 5 point block


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 07:39 pm:

Chuck, my car (barn find) never had a fire wall mounted cutout that I ever saw signs of. It did however have the single wire from the gen to amp meter and as I recall was part of the loom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

Mark:

What year is your car? Sometimes I donít think there are any set of rules on how they put these cars together from month to month? They just changed as parts changed? I had to cut into my new wiring loom to pull out the generator/cut-out/ammeter and hooked it pretty much as original. I went through the firewall up by the terminal block where the harness came through.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 10:14 pm:

Sept 1921
I went back and look at the photos I took at the time. I didn't get any with the old wires in place. At the time my goal was to get it running! :-) or :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, May 15, 2015 - 12:39 pm:

There are some T's that used a generator mounted cutout, that still had the generator wire going straight to the amp gauge.
We made a few of the real early terminal blocks as posted in this discussion, and sold all of them to Don Lang. They are more difficult to make than our regular ones. They use two wood screws to mount the terminal block to the firewall.


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