OT 1914 Inter-State Near Ismay, MT. in 1919

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT 1914 Inter-State Near Ismay, MT. in 1919
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - 11:04 pm:

Here's a pic from a 1974 issue of Cars & Parts.
Might be near Uncle Stan's ranch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 12:56 am:

Yup, about 15 miles west of my place. I know exactly the location that was taken and the road hasn't improved too much since then. That's on the Yellowstone Trail, which passes right through the middle of my place running close along the Milwaukee Railroad line, which was pretty new when that photo was taken. That's an interesting story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 08:21 am:

Population of Ismay = 19 as of 2010 census.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 10:30 am:

It surely reminds me of the one Charles Bovey had at the Dudley Garage in Virginia City, Mt. for many years. It was quite a car. Possibly the same one?



Wish I had a better picture.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 10:46 am:

Rode hard. Put away wet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

The article in Cars and Parts has a pretty complete history of the car and mentions Rexford, Boulder and Dayton, Montana...so it looks like it was in Western Mt. most of it's life.
Restored in the early 70's.
Rich, if you PM me your address I'll send you copies of the article's 5 pages.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 03:43 pm:

Bob, PM sent.

Thanks

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Hector, Minnesota on Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 10:19 pm:

Ismay, Mt (formerly / temporarily named Joe Montana). Here's a pic of the Joe Montana community Center. Notice the Yellowstone Trail sign on the post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, May 15, 2015 - 01:31 am:

Did the Milwaukee access Helena ? It seems Garrison was about as close as they got on their
mainline. Did they have a branch, and if so how did it run ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 10:58 am:

No. The Milwaukee came west to Roundup, Harlowton, Martinsdale, Ringling and turned south to go down 16 mile canyon to Lombard where it crossed the Missouri and the Northern Pacific. The curved and banked bridge across the Missouri allowed speeds up to 85 mph for the Hiawatha going down the canyon if it wasn't stopping at Lombard. Some passenger trains stopped at Lombard to transfer passengers to the NP to come to Helena. The Milwaukee bought the Jawbone railroad and upgraded the road bed to get down the canyon as there is not much of any other way to get through the mountains there. After Lombard it followed the Missouri river to Three Forks, then west over Pipestone Pass to Butte and on west. This line was electrified in about 1920 with the engine changeover taking place at Harlowton. It was electric to Avery, Idaho, steam to the foot of the Cascades in Washinton and then electric over the Cascades.

A branch line from Harlow went north to Judith Gap and on west to Great Falls as well as another line to Lewistown. It was a great railroad and one of the tragedies of the 1970's was when it was shut down and scrapped. Since it was not a land grant railroad they owned every inch of the right of way, which they sold off in sections over the years; now it would be pretty hard to put rail back on the line even tho the rail traffic is the highest of all time and they could use the capacity. Of course all the electric is gone.

The Milwaukee and the NP ran side by side along the river between Deer Lodge and Missoula. It was a thrill to get to see both trains running there and is preserved in thousands of photographs.

At one time the Milwaukee was considered to be the best built and best run railroad in America. They built their own rolling stock, had first class passenger service and served a lot of small towns including Ismay.

The Yellowstone trail followed the Milwaukee to some extent but not right by its side. The trail came from Ismay up over the hills to the south, dropped down into Westmore, back over the hills to Plevna and on east. There is a marker on my place at Westmore that I need to give another coat of yellow paint. We had some people at the auction last weekend who followed the old Yellowstone trail markers from Terry to Westmore on the gravel road and asked me if they could go through my place to follow the original road up the bank and on to Plevna. They had four wheelers and were going to spend Sunday riding the trail.

The Milwaukee line tracks remain in use to Terry, Montana where it joins the Burlington Norther tracks. Now the traffic is almost all coal trains going east to feed the power plants back east. There are probably a dozen to twenty trains a day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 09:50 pm:

Hey Stan. How did that auction go. Did the R's and D's go for scrap. I hope not. They're really scarce here in the midwest.

Last week, I was talking to a fellow who had a bunch of John Deere's, but no R's. I told him where he could get some but they were in Westmore, MT. Guess what? He knew where Westmore was and had been there. He said he got sick and upchucked there back in the '50's. Booze??? He had any army buddy from there. I forgot to has him what the friends name was. Small world isn't it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 12:03 am:

Auction went well considering that 60 miles east of there in Dakota it was snowing hard and blowing. All we got was one little sprinkle of rain but it was cold in the AM. Nice in the afternoon. We had a good crowd. The R's went for 600-1000 each, the 820 brought $2350. The T brought $1900, the hay racks with the wire wheels $550 each. The fancy stove brought $2800, a Fordson coil box $375, horse drawn equipment $25-500. The trip hammer with the line shaft and blower a little over $2000.

Small world. Only guys I can think of from Westmore who would have been in the army about then would have been Arnold Duneman or my brother Len. It was probably the water if it wasn't booze. Some of that alkali water takes a little getting used to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 01:11 pm:

The Milwaukee Road was a wonder and one of the most incredible
stories of internal sabotage I have ever read. The best engineered
transcontinental built, they could beat all others by 55 hours from a
west coast port to Chicago. After the BN merger, through allowances
because of the merger, the Milwaukee controlled 80% of the northern
tier transcon traffic, yet "management" drove the entire show off a
cliff by 1979 and it was all abandoned west of Miles City and scrapped.

Incidentally, the Pacific Coast Extension represented 20% of the MILW's
track mileage, yet it generated 90% of the companies revenues. And this
was the section "management" abandoned in their "effort" to "save the
company ! Six years later, the Milwaukee Road was gone altogether.

You can bet Milwaukee's top brass walked away in perfectly fine
financial shape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 02:38 pm:

Where did the Northern Pacific Railway run? I've got an ax head and semaphore from that line. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 03:18 pm:

The NP came west across Montana via Livingston (branched south to Yellowstone - rails
now pulled), Bozeman, northwest to Helena, over/under the divide to Garrison and onto
Missoula. Just west of Missoula, the track split, with one line going north toward the Flathead
Reservation before turning west again toward Dixon. The other leg ran up the Clark Fork
to St. Regis, then going north to meet the other leg at Paradise and continuing west to Sand
Point and Spokane. A brand was extended over Lookout Pass from St. Regis to access the
Burke mines in 1899. This allowed them to abandon their through-line to Wallace via rail from
Hauser Jct. to CDA, CDA to Cataldo via steamship, and from Cataldo to the mines via rail.
The Lookout Pass line was known as the "Wallace Branch". It too is gone now.

The NP also crossed Pipestone Pass from Manhattan to access Butte. The NP had a LARGE
presence in Montana.

I'd like to park one of those NP semaphores in front of my RR depot inspired shop to complete
"the look". :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 07:45 pm:

Burger - don't get me started! The Milwaukee got my best 12 years until the bankruptcy in 1980. You are right,....some top "management" people walked away in very good shape, while a lot of employees suffered in more ways than just financial! Whole families broken up, divorces, etc, etc.

By the way, not that it matters, but I think old Highway 10 east of Butte and towards Whitehall is actually Pipestone Pass, and the NP thru' that area was called Homestake Pass. Now that part of the old NPRR is Montana Rail Link thru' western Montana.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 07:59 pm:

Burger - Don't get me started! You're right! The Milwaukee Road got my best 12 years up until the bankruptcy in 1980! And some top "management" people walked away in very good financial shape, while many employees suffered more than just "unemployment"! Families were broken up, divorces, heart attacks, etc, etc.

And you're right about the Milwaukee being the best engineered transcontinental. That's because the Pacific Coast Extension of the Milwaukee Road was built some thirty years or so "AFTER" all the others, and engineering and equipment had progressed greatly by then.

Also, not that it matters, but old Highway 10 between Butte and Whitehall was called Pipestone Pass, and the old NP thru' that area was called Homestake Pass. And after the Milwaukee Road bankruptcy, the only RR across Montana was the old NP which became Montana Rail Link, and the northern RR route was the old Great Northern RR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 08:01 pm:

Well shucks! My first post did not appear when I checked, so I "re-did" it, and now they're both there! (....my whole day has been like that!) Oh well,.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

Harold,

Methinks you're right about the Pass name. I was too lazy to check :-)

So, what did you do for the Milwaukee ? And where did you work ?

Prior to the BN merger, the NP was my favorite still operating northwest
RR for routes, history, rolling stock character, and paint schemes. But the
Milwaukee never really entered into my equation, because they had no lines
in my immediate area.

With the BN merger, they splashed that hideous green paint on everything,
and the Milwaukee got trackage rights closer to home, and I quickly came
to pull for the "underdog". Sadly, the very things that attracted me to the
MILW were the very things that would help undo them 10 years later ... namely
the deferred maintenance and overall derelict appearance of so much of it's
lines and the archaic branch lines and barge ops .... the Milwaukee was just
too cool.

But it didn't take long for them to begin pulling back and lines like the wonderfully
trestled Everett branch were left to rot in the woods.

A sad story indeed. And the notion that engineering had advanced .... while this
may be true, the Milwaukee was forced to engineer their way through other routes
that the early RR's had bypassed as being too costly. By sticking to their guns,
the Milwaukee got a very direct route that cut DAYS off a transcontinental run,
something that today prove to be the ultimate business advantage as railroads
have found far money money in long haul business than local.

But management would scuttle the corporation to line their own pockets and
the railroad itself was piloted right into the rocks. An absurd loss for the United
States as a country, and a tragedy for all those people and communities along
their routes.

I like the way the chinese gov't handles situations like this - executing the top
brass. :-)

But here in America, we give the exec's huge bonuses and corner offices.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 11:58 pm:

Burger -....'member I said,..."don't get me started"?

Let me just say that your paragraph that starts out,...."But management would scuttle...."

That paragraph says it much better than I ever could,....but you are "right on" with that one! Again, don't get me started, it'll quickly become "profane" as I'm still bitter about what they did! To me and thousands of other employees! And as you say, to the USA public!

To answer your question, in 1968, I hired out on the CMStP&P Police Dept. in Chicago where I grew up, and by '72, I was Day Lieutenant in the MILW Police Department at Bensenville Yard.

At that time, I transferred out to Deer Lodge, Montana as a "line Lieutenant" where I was when they "spiked the switch" at Aberdeen or wherever is was, maybe in MN, I don't know, I'm starting to forget.....

Anyway, I was hired by the UPRR Police Department July 1, 1980 in Seattle and finished my career in that position, retiring as Sr. Special Agent UPRR Police Dept. at Seattle Feb. 1, 2002.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 12:01 am:

Burger -....'member I said,..."don't get me started"?

Let me just say that your paragraph that starts out,...."But management would scuttle...."

That paragraph says it much better than I ever could,....but you are "right on" with that one! Again, don't get me started, it'll quickly become "profane" as I'm still bitter about what they did! To me and thousands of other employees! And as you say, to the USA public!

To answer your question, in 1968, I hired out on the CMStP&P Police Dept. in Chicago where I grew up, and by '72, I was Day Lieutenant in the MILW Police Department at Bensenville Yard.

At that time, I transferred out to Deer Lodge, Montana as a "line Lieutenant" where I was when they "spiked the switch" at Aberdeen or wherever is was, maybe in MN, I don't know, I'm starting to forget.....

Anyway, I was hired by the UPRR Police Department July 1, 1980 in Seattle and finished my career in that position, retiring as Sr. Special Agent UPRR Police Dept. at Seattle Feb. 1, 2002.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 12:03 am:

Dang! I'm sure I'm getting a "reputation" for this, but every time I get interrupted by my wife or the phone or something, I end up double-posting! sorry......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 12:28 am:

A major part of the Milwaukee bankruptcy was a little known clause in the US bankruptcy law that exempts electrical wiring from bankruptcy attachment by the court. Since the Milwaukee ran hundreds of miles of line made of 2 inch by 3 inch solid copper service line for the locomotives on the electric portion of the line, it was exempt from the proceedings and was sold by the "management" as scrap for (depending on whose figures you believe) 10 to 15 million dollars. That money went straight home with two or three of the top guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 01:01 am:

Stan - Not sure what you mean by "2 inch by 3 inch solid copper service line", but I remember that the main feed cable for the actual trolley was 37 strand copper cable a bit over an inch in diameter. The interesting thing to me was that the actual trolley wire that the pantographs contacted actually had some silver in it, due to crude smelting practices back in the early 1900's, and it was estimated the that trolley wire only showed approximately 10% wear from all those years of the pantographs sliding on it! The cross section of that trolley wire was shaped like a Pennsylvania keystone, about the diameter of my little finger, and imagine how many miles of that stuff there was, not only on the mainline from Harlow to Avery, but also on the electrified section of the Coast Division, plus all the sidings and such! That had to be a lot of copper (and silver) and us "cinderdicks" had to protect all that stuff after it was still hanging but de-energized, while it was being taken down by trolley crews, and while it was being shipped back to Milwaukee Shops (in Milwaukee) in boxcars! We had to protect it until those thieve'n "management' so-and-so's sold it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 01:12 am:

Harold, while I do not share a personal professional history with the
Milwaukee Road like you do, I too am bitter that corporate scoundrels
were able to get away with gutting a precision machine like the Milwaukee
was and crap on both people and country, AND loot the treasury in the
process. Stuff like this really chaps my ass.

Another cute trick in their bankruptcy process was to double bill their
fiscal labor costs ... and somehow the Federal regulators "missed" that
minor misrepresentation.

The ultimate stupid on all parts was the foisting on everyone involved
that the 20% of the trackage that produced 90% of the revenue needed
to be abandoned in order to save the railroad. How the hell did that get
past anyone with a 4th grade math education ?


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