Dangers of running Diesel mix in yout T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Dangers of running Diesel mix in yout T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 06:37 am:

This come up on another thread. I havent tried this but was wondering if anybody has run a Petrol/Diesel mix in their car for a period of time? What ratio would be safe if any and what damage could I be risking if I tried this?
I have a 27 running a Vapouriser.
The reason, Petrol here is $8.50 a us gallon and diesel about half that price and if I could run a mix without risking any damage or extra wear of the motor, head gasket etc even if I lost a bit of engine power it might be worth using in particular situations like flat highway cruising.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 07:33 am:

Seen a HQ Holden with diesel put in by mistake some 40 years ago, rattling banging popping and a heap of smoke! Diesel is oil so all I can see it doing if adding a small amount to petrol is lowering the octane, fowling your spark plugs and the more you mix, more smoke out the exhaust pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 07:36 am:

I have run a 10% mix of diesel fuel in a number of pre-1932 antique cars, motorcycles, and trucks for years with low compression ratios and have had good luck.

The engines seem to run a bit cooler and vapor lock is much less of a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 09:40 am:

Reminds me of the guy who took big steps to save his $10 shoes and split his $20 pants.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 12:58 pm:

In 1951 I filled up a Model A with Diesel and drove from Los Angeles to San Bernardino and back. It caused a lot of smoke and I had to change spark plugs several times on route. It was also hard to start, but a little priming with gasoline got it started. It was the only time I ever checked the oil in the crankcase and found it higher than before I started out! I drove it around town for a few days until I was pulled over by a deputy sheriff. He asked what was I burning in the car? I told him Diesel. He said I had better switch to gasoline, because if he ever again saw me making that much smoke he would cite me for air pollution. He probably saved my Model A from self destruction because Diesel is much lighter than engine oil, and I'm sure the bearings didn't like it a bit. From then on I only used gasoline!
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 12:59 pm:

I had a supplier deliver gasoline that was contaminated with diesel years ago, my 1976 Ford pickup with a 300 6 Cylinder engine was damaged by the detonation caused by the diesel. Every compression ring and all but one oil ring was broken, one of the compression rings was in 16 pieces. The engine still ran OK, but it would blow the dip stick out of the tube. When they started to dye off road diesel red, the aviation community was up in arms as they were afraid that it could be confused with low octane ave gas, and sure enough, one of the major oil companies delivered ave gas contaminated with off road diesel to a big fly in in California, at least one aircraft suffered catastrophic failure of both engines and made an emergency landing. The oil company notified every aircraft owner that attended the fly in that they would have their engines rebuilt at the oil companies expense. The WWII war birds were expensive to overhaul, especially the 4 engine ones, but it was cheaper in the long rung than to have to pay a bunch of wrongful death suits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 06:23 pm:

it was raised due to the fact Fordsons of the era ran on Kero once started up on petrol. David its interesting you have been running 10% mix, did you start doing this to combat vapour lock/overheating problems? do you notice any performance change?
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

I don't know that I would try enough of it to make any monetary difference, but my model A does MUCH better in the Summer with a little diesel mixed in the gas. I'm talking 5% though. Not 50%. 1/2 gallon to a tank keeps the gas from 'boiling' in the carb or whatever it does when I come to red light in town after being out on the highway on a hot day. I didn't have this problem before ethanol blend fuel. I'm gonna buy some non-ethanol and see if that fixes it too, but I know 1/2 gallon of diesel in a full tank fixes it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW Troy, Mo. on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 09:00 pm:

The ability to burn fuel oil depends on the temperature the intake manifold runs at. Tractors of the day had large exhaust manifolds that heated the intake manifold to the point that the fuel would be vaporized. A Model T is marginal on the ability to vaporize that grade of fuel. I doubt that a Model A was built with that capability.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Saturday, May 16, 2015 - 11:10 pm:

Harry that might be why a vapourise T carb would work. Hal I agree 5% isnt going to effect the cost much, interesting how the blend works for you though.
Norman I like your 51 story, I can imagine the smoke trail lol.
Frank I agree, I cant see a HQ running too good on diesel and I think draining it first is a better option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 05:57 am:

I had a 1930 Model A. Even though it was bored to 60 thou oversize and had oversize pistons, there was 23 thou clearance in the bores. I would add a quarter of a gallon of diesel to every 4 gallons of petrol. My theory was that it might act as an upper cylinder lubricant and help stop the piston slap. Well I did about 25,000 miles in the car before I sold it on. I told the new owner of my method, and he continued with the mix. he had driven the car for another 15,000 miles before we lost touch, but at that time the engine was still going well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 07:32 am:

Wow 40,00 miles it obviously had no negative effect on the Model A. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW Troy, Mo. on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 10:13 pm:

Many moons ago we farmed with a 1936 John Deere tractor. At night under load the manifold would glow a mild red. It had the small tank for starting gas and the large tank for fuel oil. There was a valve that you could use to select the tank you wanted.
I have heard of people that burned fuel oil in their T's when gas was rationed. The problem was starting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 03:18 am:

I guess from what I'm reading it isn't worth using Diesel at a ratio that would effect the back pocket. Might stick with plan A and change the Carby over to achieve better mpg. Some very interesting stories though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 07:09 am:

Kevin Weeds,

"David its interesting you have been running 10% mix, did you start doing this to combat vapour lock/overheating problems? do you notice any performance change?"

I started using it about 25 years ago when modern gas changed. At the time air-cooled and marginally water-cooled engines started to run hot and loose power and vapor lock.

Gas in the period between the mid-teens and the mid-to-late 1920s was close to half gas and half kerosene as it was refined.

When I went to the 10% mixture it eliminated both problems and engines ran smoother. I even use it in early racing cars and have found the same results.

It works fine in early low-compression engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 06:52 pm:

David my car has a Z head and when I compression tested it I found 90psi in all 4 (if reading correctly). Do you think this would be an issue?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 09:00 pm:

I used to get mixed gas and deisel free from a u-haul repair shop they have to pay a lot to properly dispose of it it is hazardist waste I guess. they would give me 55 gallon drums if I brought them emptys. it is from people that put gas in diesel trucks the mix ratio is unknown but I mixed it with gas in my carburated chev 350 eng. and it ran fine if it pinged too much I just added more gas. I tried to run it in fuel injected engs. and it would ping no mater how little I put in.I still have a drum full I use for cleaning and fire starting. dont tell the E.P.A.!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 04:28 am:

Now that i could do with Paul...free gas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 07:38 am:

"My car has a Z head and when I compression tested it I found 90psi in all 4 (if reading correctly). Do you think this would be an issue?"

I don't think so, but try adding a little at a time to by sure.


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