Intake Manifold Condensation

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Intake Manifold Condensation
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Saniewski Denville NJ on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 06:24 pm:

My 1923 T idles ok, but when I increase the throttle, it runs rough and I noticed a lot of condensation on the lower part of the intake manifold. Is this normal? Or dose this mean there is some sort of blockage? Thanks, Ed Saniewski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 06:43 pm:

What it means is you probably do not have enough pre heat. Are you running a hot air pipe from the exhaust manifold to the carburetor?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 07:27 am:

Heck, they will ice up under the right conditions. Hot air pipe helps, but does rob some HP.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 10:12 am:

Well, the hot air pipe can (does?) rob some HP, but running rough because of icing robs HP also.

icey manifold:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer---- Klaaswaal NL on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 10:26 am:

What did I wrong ;??
sometime I get a picture and some time this.
2109R
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 12:00 pm:

What happens when you adjust the fuel mixture at a higher speed? Will the engine smooth out at high speed with adjustment, but then not idle smoothly? This can happen when there is either the wrong float level in the carburetor, or when there is a vacuum leak in the manifold. You will find that with the leak, the car will idle roughly because it is running lean. Then you adjust the mixture a little richer and it will smooth out, however it will be too rich at higher speed. The cooling at the intake manifold is caused by fuel evaporating (vaporizing). This will cause the moisture in the air to collect on the outside similarly to moisture forming on the inside of a window in a house on a cold day.

Another possible cause would be a partial clog in the fuel line or float valve. This condition would supply enough fuel to idle smoothly, but when you go faster, it would be too lean. At higher speeds or when pulling a hill it could actually kill the engine like when you run out of gas, but if you let it set for a few minutes, it would start up and run fine until it starves again.

I recommend that you check for intake manifold leaks, float level, and fuel mixture. Check the fuel line for a clog. Also try a hot air pipe.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 09:12 am:

Toon,
I think your computer is full of virus or spyware :-(

Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable on how to fix it, but I bet there are a few in here who knows how to deal with it - like buying some good virus protection from a reputable source?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 09:04 pm:

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

My T absolutely refuses to run well without the hot air pipe attached, i have tried removing it at different times of the year, with the same results...T's are fickle to what they desire, all i can do is obey. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:16 pm:

Another spin on hot air pipe's. Three weeks ago, eleven early cars (Mostly Model T's) from our local HCCA Regional group drove old route 66 starting at the Colorado River and ending up at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. I trouble trucked on this event and was busy at times....mostly flat's and clogged fuel lines.
However, once we arrived at Williams Az. two model T's would hardly run. After much tinkering and head scratching....The problem turned out to be a hot air pipe on one and a home made breather on the other. Once these items were removed, both T's ran great the remainder of the trip. There was very little traffic on hwy 66. We traveled on a dirt road from Ash Fork Az. to Williams. After spending two nights and one day at the Grand Canyon, we returned the same roads back to our starting point. The weather was mostly in the 70's with low humidity. The altitude at the Grand Canyon was around 5000 ft. It took two day's of easy driving getting to and from the Grand Canyon. Mileage traveled each day varied between 120 to 140 miles/day. The only high traffic area was driving from Williams to the Grand Canyon and returning to Williams.
No one encountered any icing problems running with out the hot air pipe or air cleaner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 12:27 am:

If you look a number of carbs made back in the day they had some sort of hot air pipe hooked up also many had a ring you could open to allow cool air to enter for summer/dry (that is the important part) driving. When running a stock carb I wished Ford had made a setup similar to that. There are times driving in Oregon that it would come in handy. Even running the Zenith/Stromberg there are times the intake is just plain wet and that intake is shorter and closer to the exhaust manifold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 07:16 am:

"No one encountered any icing problems running with out the hot air pipe...."

And you won't in low humidity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 10:54 am:

Hal, I agree.
The thing that interested me the most was how a small amount of air restriction and heat using a hot air pipe or air cleaner could cause a model T to hardly run. At sea level, both cars ran good....however, both owners did say their cars performed much better even at sea level with the items removed.
A lot of work was expended on each car checking timers, spark plugs, fuel lines and float level restrictions before discovering what the true cause was. This was all done along side the road with the vulture truck/trailer waiting. When the cars were cold, both seemed to run ok....only after being driven some (After Heating Up) would the engines tend to die.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 11:27 am:

Here's a chart meant for aircraft but still applies to anything with an unheated carb:
Carb Ice Chart
Notice how you can get carb ice up to 105* with as little as 30% humidity and that reduced power settings are more conducive to ice formation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 11:54 am:

Depending on how dry the air is, I have noticed that under some conditions when the air is dry my T does not run (with stock carb and intake) as well with the stove fully in place. Even just moving the hot air pipe aside to allow some unheated air in does improve it.
My take is when the outside air is low in humidity the fuel charge is also too dry for the engine to run correctly with the stove in place. So instead of 16:1 it's has less fuel in the fuel/air ratio.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 12:14 pm:

Les,

That makes sense, as I believe it is all about the density of the air. The air from the hot air pipe of a warm engine will be less dense than when it was cool. Couple that with the less dense air at the higher elevation, and it's a double whammy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 12:41 pm:

Altitude seemed to be most important as the humidity was low in the desert where started and also at the Grand Canyon.
One of the model T owners that was using a hot air pipe even changed the 1/4" fuel line to a larger size and routed it away from the exhaust at our first night stop thinking his problems were vapor lock. This was in the town of Seligman Az. which was the 1/2 way point to the Grand Canyon. There was a Hardware store in town that had "Everything". Don't see one stop shopping places like that anymore. The old motel where we stayed was true route 66, clean bed...hard as rock. Dinner was at the Road Kill dinner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 01:04 pm:

Just to clarify, I was referring to the running problem when I was talking about it being related to air density.

I'm not sure that density, in and of itself, affects whether you would get carb icing or not. Maybe? I'd have to think about that. But I can easily see where less dense air would have a major impact on performance.


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