Something you don't usually see this many of and my dilemma.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Something you don't usually see this many of and my dilemma.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 07:52 pm:



I found these at a Swap Meet Friday. I have always saved ball bearings and races for T's even though I have replaced them with tapered bearings. I have thought the ball bearings would work great on a low mileage car but was short of inner races for them.

I was pleased to find 76 of them. They were in a plastic tray that was filling up with rain. I hurried them to the trunk and dried them off. Today I started cleaning some and found that all but one were left hand threads. I'm guessing they came from a dealership and were used bearings tossed in a bucket possibly for future use. The rights were probably tossed in a different bucket.

The first 8 cleaned up nicely for used parts. Not any rust pitting.



I'm not ready to post an add, as I have what I need for now, But if someone has a bucket of rights, I would do some trading.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 09:05 pm:

Just to give you an idea on price;
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2706.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, May 17, 2015 - 09:21 pm:

Wow!!! I had forgotten that price. Thanks Mark.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 07:24 am:

I have that many rights and lefts. I am out of the inner race that goes on the spindle. Not too much demand for them. I may be the only person who uses ball bearings any more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 07:51 am:

I use them too... I bought an NOS outer cup from Dan Hatch in Luray on Friday. It was coated in surface rust but after putting it in my lathe and using an internal grinder on the surfaces, it cleaned up like it was brand new.

Here's the thing... you have to remove all pits and factory forging marks, otherwise, the bearings don't last long. Once you do that, they will roll for a very long time. So I always re-grind the surfaces and I purchase hardened stainless steel balls. I've toured for 5 years on the same set of bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 07:56 am:

I use ball bearings in my "early hub" cars. In fact, getting ready to send off a set of the metal parts to Stutzman's for our '15 Runabout at the present time. So far, I think I have all NOS bearings, except the balls which can be bought at a local bearing supplier. I've used original ball bearings for at least 45 years with no problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 08:33 am:

I'm glad to hear the good results from using them. I also had forgotten that they were for sale and so inexpensive. I was mis-remembering what I was short of. It probably was the inner bearing race that Royce mentioned that I am short of. I don't always think rationally at a swap meet. However they were a bargain and I am pleased to have saved them from a wet container as they are fun to clean up. I'll use the tips from James on the inner ones and save them. At the prices the tapered ones have risen to, this is a nice alternative.

Thanks.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 08:45 am:

Contemplating having some new wheels made, and wondering whether I should go original or use Timkens, I recently investigated the front wheel ball bearing situation. I found that the only thing you can buy new are the balls, and possibly the retainers if somebody is making those. All of the other parts available are NOS or used. There simply isn't enough demand to justify their manufacture. The cost would be too high and sales too low. Some of the parts are still so plentiful that a few of the parts dealers list them in their catalogues. The adjusting outer cones like Rich found seem to be the most plentiful. Bill Devine has them listed in the Birdhaven catalogue for $1.25. He also has the inner cup listed for $4.95. But the other parts seem to be in much shorter supply. The outer cup isn't listed there, and is harder to come by. But if you want to go original I think the part that may spoil your plans is the stationary inner cone, which seems to be made of unobtainium. I suspect all that's left of those in usable condition are in the private stashes of guys who have been collecting parts for a long time. Not finding any usable inner cones and knowing that none of these parts are going to become easier to find, I decided to add Timken slots to my hubs and go with the roller bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 09:15 am:

Royce: No, you aren't. Sorry. ;<)
Steve: "There simply isn't enough demand to justify their manufacture. The cost would be too high and sales too low."

That is true of about 80% of currently unavailable T parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 10:42 am:

I think the statement is true in the case of bearings. Especially since a "modern" (Timken) replacement is available and can't be seen. They must be very expesnsive to make. Here's an example: Years back, on a friends car ( Honda or Toyoda I forget), the belt tensioner pulley let go. $100 & change for a new one. The bearing looked removable. We pressed it out and passed it around. Every one in the shop said it looked familiar. Turned out to be a D-12 something or other which was used on early Chrysler alternators! $6.00. Units needing bearings might be designed around existing/available bearings to keep manf. prices down which just goes back to the statement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 11:46 am:

that's a neat find!

In my experience, what's offered by dealers is not FORD and their finish varies from "OK" to lousy. Some look like a second operation grind was not performed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 02:16 pm:

These all seem to be Ford script. The size and placement of the script varies. You can see machine marks but they are relatively smooth and might not have caused much wear. They also would allow more oil on the Ball.

Stuff like this is fun to have around whether I use it or not. Much of it I only buy if it is cheap and it is always there if and when I need it.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 03:18 pm:

My experience with "NOS" ball bearing parts was that most of them had been glass-beaded to clean off the rust, AND were not to specs--I suspect that originally they were rejects (yes, with Ford Script even) that had been dumpstered, and "saved" by someone back in the day (or just dumped in a box and put in a corner for rework that never happened). I expect with rework, they could be made good, except the ones that were already undersized on the OD.
Most of these problems were found with the cups. Many original cups found in wheels are found to be cracked, BTW.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James M. Riedy, Sandusky, Ohio on Monday, May 18, 2015 - 11:27 pm:

Richard, When I saw the title I thought your dilemma was going to be, should you make a painting of your first picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:00 pm:

Thank James. Those old parts do make wonderful paintings for those of us who appreciate the grime and rust.

David, the reject theory is a possibility but these had some very black, dried grease and some wrench and washer marks on them. That is why I had thought they were used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:13 pm:

Those are the easy ones to find. It's the inner ones that are difficult, especially the cups. I got mine from Bob Sr., back when you could still get them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:37 pm:

I have about 800 NOS ones of these in stock still, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 01:18 pm:

The inner cones are difficult to find. But those would be easy for a machinist to make. The "cups" are stamped, and they are an entirely different matter to manufacture. The cups, both inner and outer are the real prize when you can find them. As I said above, I find rusty NOS cups and then re-grind them. Here are some photo's from a thread on the subject a few years ago. If you use these early ball bearings, THEY MUST be POLISHED. You cannot glass bead them and then use them. They will grind themselves down and fail prematurely. Ball bearings are different from the tapered style in that the rotate on a point contact so the entire load of the car is on a single point of each bearing as opposed to the taper style which has a line contact. bearing1bearing2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 01:20 pm:

Here is the entire thread from 2013... The information transfer in there was great and worth re-posting.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/542235.html?1432055893


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

James - You've got me going in circles,......???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 02:03 pm:

LOL Harold.

Hey James the link you posted is to THIS thread we are currently in. =P


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 02:35 pm:

Now that was stupid huh?!! I'll post the correct one later when I get home. ..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 02:55 pm:

David Dewey,

You state, "...I suspect that originally they were rejects (yes, with Ford Script even) that had been dumpstered, and "saved" by someone back in the day..."

I suspect that you're partially correct. My dad worked at the Ford Highland Park plant during tractor production, from just before WWII till the plant closed in the mid-70's. At one time, Ford ran a Factory Store at Highland Park, where even into the 50's, they sold NOS Model T parts. Dad used to mention that many of the items were rejects for one reason or another. He used to buy transmission bands there, among other things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 07:44 pm:

Ok.. How about we try this thread!

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/388494.html?1379567459


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 09:57 pm:

These are the kind of ball bearing parts I usually find.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 07:07 pm:

I've found my share of those too...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 01:11 am:

James,
Thanks for posting that other thread, I'd forgotten about it. Re-reading it answered all my questions!!
Now where did i put that box of rejected NOS cups????


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