Is it wiser to prime the body then upholster or paint then upholster?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Is it wiser to prime the body then upholster or paint then upholster?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:11 am:

Is it wiser to prime the body then upholster or paint then upholster?

Or doesn't it matter? I was concerned that putting the upholstery on would likely chip or scratch the paint when put on after it is painted.

The body is at the pointer now getting ready for primer.

Thank you in advance. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:39 am:

When I did my car, upholstery and top (enclosed car) was done last. You don't want to get paint on the new material.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:42 am:

The Upholstery shop I do business with says paint it after we get our stuff in, we can remove a little overspray a lot easier than we can fix a scratch in new paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wilson, Saint John NB, Canada on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:46 am:

I installed my top and upholstery after the car was painted. Result was a nice little scratch in the back panel when a tool slipped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:01 am:

During the early black years, 1915-22 , Ford first painted the bodies with two layers of black, then let them cure for 24 hours and upholstered them, then back through the paint for a last layer of varnish.
In the later black years the bodies were upholstered after the maroon primer was dried for three hours in an oven at 150-160 degrees. Then two covers protected the upholstery when two layers of black and one of varnish was painted and again the bodies were baked with upholstery at 150-169 degrees. http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:01 am:

Any painter will tell you to paint first and upholster second.

Any upholsterer will tell you the opposite. Neither one wants to be responsible for anything other than their own work. It is tough to find good help these days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:03 am:

It is much easier to fix a scratch than it is to remove paint from a seat cover. If a panel has to be repainted it is no great loss. You will get better coverage of surfaces if it is painted before upholstery, because the paint will be under covered edges that the tack strips cover. Your opinion may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:23 am:

For me body work, priming and painting is done before installing the upholstery.

I have 3 T's and I did my cars in that way.

It seemed to me I could save a step by painting first and not have to worry about masking to keep paint off of the upholstery.

Either way you have to watch about minor mishaps such as scratches, little dings and etc. Things will and do happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:25 am:

Lazy, silly and clumsy accidents can happen at any time. It's not reserved for the upholstery step. It's best to cover accident prone areas when you work on your car. I think it's better to protect sheet metal with paint so when you're caught in the rain, the body is protected. Or when the car is simply stored. Unless you store the car in an environmentally controlled area, the metal will rust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 12:03 pm:

Since I don't do my own paint and upholstery, I normally would have had a choice. In the case of my Grandfather's 27 coupe, I didn't have a choice. My upholsterer of choice stays booked up for a year and sometimes more, so when he had a cancellation and I had the kit, it was an easy decision. Then the hard part began. No paint shop wanted to paint an upholstered car; particularly an enclosed car with door jams, etc. I finally found a painter and asked him. He said, "sure, I'm got a Firebird in the paint booth right now, Want to see it. That was all it took for me to decide he was my painter and he did an excellent job without getting a speck of paint where it shouldn't be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison- PA on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 01:21 pm:

A restorer I respect does all the painting work first, then covers it all with cardboard and plastic sheeting so a slipped upholstery tool is not a threat.

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 01:29 pm:

Do both -- do all the paint prep work you can prior to upholstering, get it in final prime and blocked, even go ahead and spray the edges in color, then upholster. It's easier to fix the inevitable tack hammer marks in primer rather than topcoat and it's easy to mask off the upholstery to spray final color and buff rather than do all the bodywork at the end and make a lot of dust around it. Applying the welting at the end minimizes the amount you're swinging a hammer around the new paint and it helps cover the masking transition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coco - Winchester Va. on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 02:04 pm:

As one who does trim work, I can tell you that cars brought to me are always painted. Upholstery is the last thing considered. I cover the body as much as possible with shipping blankets, but on occasion, as mentioned, a tool slips or something else happens to cause "trimmer's rash", as a friend calls it.

My best advice is to work with your trimmer DURING the car's restoration, to see what works best. Right now I have a mid-20's roadster (Overland) in my shop, with no fenders, no running boards, no hood...just painted body on rolling chassis. I can work with that, as it eliminates a lot of potential areas that could be harmed.

Also, working with your trimmer can save you money. I've had welded panels that were supposed to be removable to pad and upholster, and seasoned oak that a tack could barely scratch...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 02:06 pm:

I would guess it depends on the body style. _A roadster or touring will have seats, the edges of which are pulled taut over the body work and tacked into place. _I could be wrong, but it seems to me that painting right up to the edge of that upholstery and leaving the body underneath unpainted isn't the way Ford would have done it.

The objection to scratching paint is certainly valid and that's a matter of the skill of upholsterer. _I would imagine an experienced pro would have no particular difficulty protecting the paint and does that kind of thing on a routine basis. _Most of us aren't pros, though and a substantial part of this hobby is the satisfaction gotten from doing the job yourself. _That makes it a whole 'nuther ball game.

If it were me, realizing that I'm too much of a klutz to be trusted around fresh paint, I'd deal with the primer first, then upholster, then mask the edges very, very carefully (which requires patience, not skill) and then, with all the prep-work done, start shooting paint. _An amateur like me needs to use the technique which requires the least skill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 02:49 pm:

Bob

The skill in masking off upholstery is hard to learn. Believe it. The upholstery is soft, surfaces move, paint WILL creep under any masking scheme!


Body work, prime, sand, then finish coats on the body, you get inside and out coverage.



Only then you go put the new clothes on the car!

Messing with masking tape is just that! Makes a mess. The only time is if you are doing a re-paint on a car that has been upholstered, then maybe. I would pull away the Hidem or tack welting in that case, and mask the best I could, but that is hard to do, the spray gun can get away easy as you do full coverage double sprays.




Body off again. Paint first.




Then upholster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 03:43 pm:

I stand cheerfully corrected and educated. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 04:27 pm:

I prefer paint first. If you want to put upholster in first at least put paint on the edges under the upholster that's called jamming. Primer alone will not stop corrosion. You need to put paint on primer to seal out moister.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Linsenbarth on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 05:38 pm:

We paint and buff every thing before upholstery.
Most all colors we shoot are clear coated and there is the problem. Any edge left from masking clear will turn white, brittle, and peel. Clear has no pigment color so no protection from UV Rays other then what's added from the manufacture which is very little if any at all. When painting a part with clear we always over lap all edges inside and out both with color and clear.
By the way a friend of mine a year ago took on a 1910 Buick body that had been pre-upholstered, he's already fixed the edges two or three times that meet the leather.
The other thing is leather colors need to be matched for contrast of color of the paint, unless your just using black on black.
Also my friends Buick job the seats where done in Maroon and the body in a deeper darker maroon, you guessed it the seats look pink.
Charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Linsenbarth on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 05:41 pm:

We paint and buff every thing before upholstery.
Most all colors we shoot are clear coated and there is the problem. Any edge left from masking clear will turn white, brittle, and peel. Clear has no pigment color so no protection from UV Rays other then what's added from the manufacture which is very little if any at all. When painting a part with clear we always over lap all edges inside and out both with color and clear.
By the way a friend of mine a year ago took on a 1910 Buick body that had been pre-upholstered, he's already fixed the edges two or three times that meet the leather.
The other thing is leather colors need to be matched for contrast of color of the paint, unless your just using black on black.
Also my friends Buick job the seats where done in Maroon and the body in a deeper darker maroon, you guessed it the seats look pink.
Charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable - Kiama NSW OZ on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 07:17 pm:

Charles, I don't know what type of paint you are using but modern car paint which requires clear the clear used over the color definitely has UV protection.

If it is as you describe it every vehicle with clear top coat in the last 20 years would have clear which has completely failed.

My vote goes for paint first, upholster last.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 07:43 pm:

By accident, my trimmer and I have come to an agreement which suits us both. I hadn't finished some mechanical work one one chassis when a slot came up in his schedule. I delivered the fully painted body only, on a 20" high rolling frame. He loved the freedom to be able to roll the body out of the way when required, but the real boon was not having to climb over/work around fenders and running boards. The low frame allowed him to do much of the work from the floor too.

He hates to work on unpainted cars, knowing that his work will be compromised. If he has to, all finisher strips like hidem' binding etc are left off, to be fitted after painting.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Linsenbarth on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:07 pm:

Being that we paint about 200 cars a year and I have to warranty every one of them for a year by state law and forever for some of the insurance companies we work for, I think I know a little some thing about clear coat finish after 39 years of using the products. We use PPG DCU 2021 with DCX61-4 hardener and reducer 85.
We are talking refinish and repair here not OEM finish.
Charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:26 pm:

No Royce;
Help is hard to find,
good help is impossible to find


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black SC/FL on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:27 pm:

I built the body tub(wood and metal replacement/repair) on the "roller" frame all the way to the final paint. I then removed the body and placed it on sawhorses to install the upholstery, then set it down on boards on concrete blocks and installed the top. Nothing to climb over and low enough to reach everything. That's also a good time to do the sandblasting and powdercoating of any frame/running gear parts you want done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable - Kiama NSW OZ on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 09:56 pm:

Charles,
I should have been more specific with my post.
The clears used today for repair have similar qualities to OEM finishes. As you said "you have to warrant them"

You stated that - "Clear has no pigment so no protection from UV rays other than what"s added from the manufacturer which is very little if any at all"

In you reply you say that you use PPG DCU 2021 Urethane clear and warrant some work forever and all for 12 months. So how is the clear "inferior"?

I also have lots of years experience (51) in auto paint in a shop and in the technical side.

Wouldn't you recommend that these paints be used on a Model T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 12:09 am:

All the cars I've ever done were painted first, although I had one 30 A coupe that had been painted, but the painter didn't paint anything on the inside, including door jambs. This "professional restorer" also didn't replace the rotten wood in the door jambs. That was fun, replacing that wood without damaging the panels (the panels nail to the wood in the jamb area, so the wood HAD to be replaced. managed to do a really nice job, but it was NOT FUN. Then I put in the interior. The only upholstery I've done before painting has been top inserts on As. And even then I spray top coat around the opening before installing the top. Usually I put masking paper under the metal edging strip so when I'm done, the top is masked. I believe that's how Ford did it originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 12:17 pm:

Wow, I am glad I asked! Thank you all very much.

Have a blessed day!

Bob


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