uggggghhhhh! what can I say
Yes. But it could be worse. They could have chopped it, which would have destroyed the body rendering it useless for future re-union with a proper Model T chassis and engine. Let's hope they are done with their "project". Jim Patrick
Looks like no Model T parts were permanently destroyed, the original body parts were put on a new chassis it seems. There are many late coupes left, enough for car guys with varying sicknesses from the old car bug bite to play
Not my style but, no not really.
Key elements to the charm of a T-era car to me are the tall, skinny spoked wheels
and the various detail items such as lights, mirrors, and handles. Change that stuff,
and the body is just a box with all the character removed. Hell, even Henry messed
with the good looks of the T for 26-27 to the point I lose interest.
The good news is, Ford made LOTS of them, and oodles of them survive. It's not
as if this was a Marmon or a Gardner, where few were built, fewer still survive, and the
historical loss is more extreme. Finding all but the weirdest T's CAN be done because
so many survive. And hopefully someone was available to haul off all the stripped parts
to be used on a car being preserved in a more-or-less original state.
I suspect anyone frequenting this forum hates to see ANY Model T "desecrated", but
most of us have more T's than we can honestly restore and drive in a lifetime and there
just aren't enough enthusiasts to preserve them all. Some are going to fall "victim" to
people with less-than-purist restoration ideas running around in their heads. Whaddya
gonna do ???
The most obvious crime is that dropped axle.
I'll give ya $100 for it..............
I hate to see that happen as well. However, it was someone's project like the one pictured above that freed up a chassis for my speedster project! .
He couldn't fathom why anyone would want that "lawn mower engine on a match stick frame" (his words) but he sure was glad to sell it to me!
Doesn't bother me, the execution is a little lackluster but I wouldn't kick it out of my garage if it followed me home.
I just puked a little in my mouth
Awful lot of work for a 6 banger but I guess if that's what's layin' around and your bored....
It is still surviving ....
In any form is better than in a landfill or scrap pile ....
I wouldn't do it, but to each his own. As long as they are motoring down the road safely and having fun.
It almost looks like a 4 cyl Pinto motor? I think they're kind of easy to adapt to the T.
See what happens?! First it's a water pump. Then a distributor. Next thing you know....
My next door neighbor likes the "Faster" cars. I told him about a 31 "A" coupe, and we went and looked at it and two days later it was in front of his garage. He did a frame off job, except with a different frame big block engine and traany. Welded in the top, took out the rumble seat for the gas tank. Removed the gas tank. Painted it Silver metallic and black fenders, and it looks great. DID NOT CHOP the top, Thank God. He did sell the engine and complete running gears to a friend.
IMHo if it is a complete car restore it to it's original status, the way Henry made it.
On my two T's I have added signal light's, one has a starter and I hope to put one on the other car. My '17 Hack has the starter and my '19 hopefully will be fitted this year with a starter.
All of the above is my OPINION, good or bad.
It's not a T. It's a Model K improved car.
Its a Model U. U meaning ugly! Just don't look good.
Made with new steel, "Buttuglyum".
I think he was converting to a distributor and the inline six stuck to it.
I don't know what you guys are complaining about. It looks sharp and certainly not a street rod. Otherwise, there would be big V8 hanging over the frame rails.
Frankenstein Brain,(Engine), Transplant. It makes me sad. At least the body looks stock.
I agree with Burger.
Careful saying that around these parts, Dean !
My favorite part of old cars is seeing them going down the road as regular
cars .... not cutesy toys going to shows or in parades, etc. Just that unassuming,
on-the-job grocery gitter or farm truck doing its job.
In fact, I prefer working on them and seeing them going down the road to driving
them. When I am inside, I am just in a loud box. When I see one going down the
road, I get the full aspect experience of all the moving parts, the background, the
sounds, the smells ... way more "fun". I wish everyone had an ancient car and the
whole world moved at 1935 speed. But alas, we loons suffering from nostalgic
waxing are lost in an ocean of people who think speed and machismo is "everything".
I don't see any alternative than to own my own T's and drive them annoying slow
amidst the Mario Andretti/stunt driver wannabes that flood our streets.
Again, ... whaddya gonna do ???
Burger, I noticed that after I read the "Be Proud" post.
Well, since they didn't ask me for any money to fund the project I guess they can spend their money any way they want.
At least it's a Ford engine. Probably out of a Falcon, 170 or 200 inch. I have another 26 coupe that's going to happen to if some model T person doesn't step up and save it. It's cheap enough. Have had some lowball offers from hot rodders. May just do that and keep the chassis with Ruckstell. See it with the Auburn swap meet photos.
Erik it is a 200 CI with a c4. I would love to get your car but I have bills to pay and I cant make it to Ca and back in a weekend.
Bet it doesn't have that Model T sound, which is part of the charm of driving a T.
It's a nice job and as long as he's not claiming he's a "stock" Model T, it's ok, not my cup of tea, but ok all the same.
It's his car, he can ruin it anyway he wants to.
Hey, it could have turned out like this....
That looks like a B or C series Cummins. Steering that brute must be a real bear. I bet it sounds neat. Can't quite see cooling it with that radiator.
I bet he has a water pump. That will be his downfall.
Both ok to me beats rusting away in someones barn or field and theres plenty go around
"... Hey, it could have turned out like this.... "
After all the years of candy-colored paint, flames, louvres,
and billet, this "rat rod" movement evolved as a throwback to
the 50's "hotrod" culture where guys built their cars out of whatever they could find.
I find the creativity impressive and prefer the rust/patina to
all that overpolished nonsense. But that's just me.
Well i for one like as it being used and enjoyed and not rotting away in a barn or field
And just look in your own group how many truely stock T‘s are aound
"After all the years of candy-colored paint, flames, louvres,
and billet, this "rat rod" movement evolved as a throwback to
the 50's "hotrod" culture where guys built their cars out of whatever they could find."
Rat rod, No, hot rod, YES. There is a happy medium.
G.R. Cheshire - If the guy that built that car also had a beautiful antique walnut or cherrywood grandfather clock in his living room, I'd ask him why he didn't rip the old works out of it and replace with a modern electronic movement, and decorate the wood cabinet with flames and louvers!
I recently became the caretaker of this T. It has been poo-pooed on the forum before, but it was built in the late 50's early 60's. It was a stock T for 35 years, but has been a V8 T for 55 years. I remember seeing this car being a daily driver when I was a kid. You have to remember that in the early 60's this car could be on the back row of a used car lot with a $50 or $75 price tag, notice the '63 issued license plates. This car was "on the road" in '63! People who were beginning to be interested in restoring Model T's were young and had families and did not want a coupe or roadster, they had families and needed a touring or sedan.
This car has a T frame and a stock '25 coupe body. The headlights have a sealed-beam conversion which was a common upgrade in the 50's and 60's and turn signals have been added. It has '37 steering box, '37 axle, '37-'39 V8-60 engine, '40 side loader column shift trans, and a '37 Columbia overdrive reared, and '37 wheels, and hubcaps with 4-wheel hydraulic brakes. It's a real nice driver that is very easy to drive in everyday city traffic and able to reach highway speeds when necessary.
I can't say that I would like to see a nice original T made into a "hotrod" now, but this car was built when it was a car nobody wanted and has been this was much longer than it was stock!
ive decided to get rid of my model t s, ive got a very nice restored 27 coupe, a 24 roadster, a 25 depot hack, and a newly track roadster 618-401 5977
It doesn't make me sick and yes, I'd drive the snot out of it. But then again I just love proper wire wheels on brass cars
I'd rather see complete original Model Ts turned into hotrods than see them stripped and sold for parts on ebay...
Upset about altering the presented car? Think about it, in the Forum there has been discussions computer timers to replace the mechanical timer, putting starters on Brass no starter cars, adding fuel pumps to replace original fuel system, going from 6 volt to 12 volt starters, up grading the lighting, brakes, pro and cons of the water pump, OHV engines, and the list goes on. I personally think taking pieces of a T and making a rat rod is far better than adding a reconstructed bits-it to the Model T lineage. Besides if the example presented at the beginning of the discussion has a Pinto engine in place of the original T motor, it is still in keeping with the Ford family. Was not the Pinto sold as the new Model T?
You serious Mike?
I have the same feeling about cars from the 30's, 40's, and 50's. I saw a '36 Ford tudor yesterday evening. The body was original on the outside, but it was lowered and very likely had a different drive train. In fact, it is very unusual to see an original or near original car from those eras. I think there are more original Model T's and Model A's still on the road than those later cars.
Go to any craigslist and you'll find a mountain of ratrod garbage that used to be cars.
Typical post....."1923 Model A rat rod, too many features to list. Tubbed, choppped channeled, V8 not installed, heard it was rebuilt. Easy restoration, car is 99% stock original. Finished it's a big $$$ car. Lost interest. My loss is your gain. $24,000 FIRM."
Nonsense. Those folks are all the same. Read 'em like a book!
It is definitely NOT my style. Both of my parents and my dad's brother's family were active members of the HCC club during the 1970s and 1980s, when I was a kid. It was ingrained in me that to modify a complete, original antique car was sacrilege. They always wanted to keep their cars in top mechanical shape and driveable. Their idea of restoring antique cars was to keep the automobile as close to the original manufacturer's specifications, keep it period correct and to only restore it when parts needed to be replaced. If it originally didn't come with a starter, you didn't put one on. The exception to the rule was when parts were completely unavailable at swap meets, to find the next best replacement part, all the while staying period correct. They were into antique automobiles because they appreciated the history and development of the automobile the uniqueness of each manufacturer.
Hot rods do have their place in automobile history, especially when it comes to improving the car's performance. My cousins who live in Pasco find old rusty incomplete shells that have sat outside for the last 60+ years and chop them up to make wild creations like what Chuck posted. That isn't my style, but it doesn't bother me either as they haven't destroyed a piece of history - nature pretty much did the destruction - they just gave it a new life.
I have been to a few shows in which I have the only car from the 1920s that is stock. All the rest have had major alterations of some sort - lowered, the top chopped, no fenders, lowered axle, a huge engine sticking out the front - you get the picture. From my limited perspective, a car like this seems to be about how much money a guy can spend and to draw attention to themselves. It reminds me of a teenager who installs a sound system that is so loud that you can feel the vibrations in the pavement from twenty feet away. I do not understand that mentality.
Yes. Pass the sick bag.
I once worked on a '36 Ford Trunkback Convertible Sedan--Yes, VERY rare car. In 1937 the second owner, who still owned the car, had Carter chop the top and install one of his California Tops (reportedly the 4th one he made). He also painted the grill black and put a Pines trim front and fender spears on it. The car has been this way since the second year of its life & we weren't about to change it back to the factory specs--which would have been nearly impossible anyway! Oh, and he'd added juice brakes too.
So, occasionally there are legitimate custom cars. Heck, the Packard Darrin convertibles were custom cars, just made in multiples (and, trust me, Darrin was a hacker, those puppies were lead sleds!
This is probably going far astray of the original thread, sorry!
BTW, I've now owned my Model A longer than the original owner, and it now has been restored longer than it wasn't!
Well, everyone has his likes and dislikes. Some of us are more passionate about it than others. I love restored cars and I love hot rods (traditional). I dislike rat rods but it's no skin off my nose if some guy builds one with his own stuff. I do wonder sometimes, how many of the super-purists live in a beautifully restored Victorian home with a bathroom that looks like it belongs in the Holiday Inn. huh?
Does it make me SICK ??
Well it depends a little on when it was done. If it was done in the 30's, 40's or even 50's when there were millions of old worn out T's around, I can understand it. After all if someone asked you to repower a 10 year old Camaro, it wouldn't make you sick - you can understand it, in view of the time it was done.
BUT that being said, it's now 2015, T's and T parts are much harder to come by. So anyone modifying an original T should be hung by his private parts.
George Many of us have done none of those things to our Model T. Even if we had done the things you suggest like putting a starter on a brass T it does not change the T into something else.
Turning a T into a Ratrod changes what it is for ever. It's no longer a Model T despite what is on the Title. Building a ratrod with later ford parts is no different than building it with any other later non original parts.
I love my 1913 T and I drive it lots - at least 3 times a week. I will, if need be, modify it to mean I can continue using it ( for example my current slipped disc leaves me contemplating an electric start from a later T ) however my car will always be a T.
Finally I have a friend who has and flies a beautifully restored 1942 Mark 9 Spitfire. What would we think if he took the Merlin out and replaced it with a jet engine ??
yes im serious, not a track roadster, its a speedster, yep, gonna get out of it
Karl no arguments from me. I can agree to having a brass T an retrofitting a Gray-Davis starter, not a 1919 factory Ford electrical system. As for the 1942 Mark 9 Spitfire being retrofitted with a period Whittle Jet would be brilliant.
As a friend of mine once said when we were discussing the absurdity of what we've spent on racing...
"Everyone else's hobbies are stupid"
"putting starters on Brass no starter cars"
I'm sure many people did that or wanted to that in the 1920s. I agree that there's something special in having a 100% factory correct car but people were upgrading Ts when they were brand new, that's a fact. So then what's wrong with us doing the same using period correct upgrades such as a hi-comp head, wire wheels, aux. trans, 2 speed diff, etc.? There's room for everyone in the hobby and cars can always be changed back to fully factory original.
If the builder would have re plumbed the air cleaner so they could have used a hood ?? I like stock and peroid mods if they are quality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud.
It's a hotrod.
Hotrod has everything to do with speed, the perception of speed, or the modification to achieve speed. Other than a set of T or A wire wheels and a hood, it's almost "tour ready" if it will run. The guy probably has far more money in that old thing than a good coupe with a rebuilt T drive train.
However, the word hotrod has become a rather vulgar and somewhat derogatory term used to describe cars other people drive. Funny how words change over time. I was told by a club member that when differentiating some of the "more swift" participants where we gather, it is much more polite to use terminology such as "go fast", "tour car", "tour ready", "period improved", "accessorized", etc. Hotrod is considered by most folks as tacky.
There are lots of hotrods when on a tour and like my grand-kids say, "get o-ver it!". Except for the speedster group, the intent of which is very clear, most are just less obvious and tacky than the car that started the thread but every bit as much of a hotrod. Hood and wheels is basically all he needs for starters.
Ken in Texas
Ken, that car would look at home in your garage. Maybe add a hood and couple of those cowl lights you have been restoring lately.
You are correct as usual and I'm sorry for using the "H" word. What are you asking for it?
after all this time I just realised I forgot to include the ad that went with it
No. I would have left it stock, but the owner has the right to do whatever he chooses with his automotive stuff. Criticizing the T's owner would be hypocrisy for me. When I get a trailer for my T, I will pull it with my '82 Chevy pickup that is powered by a '66 Buick engine that is worked over a bit. Like that T, there is nothing that couldn't be put back to original, but I'm betting that the truck never will be Chevy powered again.
I wouldn't own it or do it to a T but you have to understand something: as much as some people here totally hate this it's closer to what the majority of car folks out there look at. Maybe not with a 6 in it but still... T's don't seem to draw the crowds at shows these days. It's muscle, muscle, muscle period. I hated it when Coddington did it to a Coupe and that other jerk in monster garage tore up a sedan too. Both perfectly good running cars but not what they wanted. I don't like it but I don't sweat it either because I can't do a darn thing about it. We here are the only people that want them as they were very few others do.
$12,000 for that???????????? I think not!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud.
I personally think that the main factor some people turn these cars into rods is because of the beautiful style of the body, and nothing more. I think they have no idea of the historic importance of these cars, and have never driven a stock T to understand how thrilling it is to actually drive one. Every-time i get in my T, i always think about the first owner of my car, and the thrill he must have had the first day he got it.
Underpowered vintage machinery (whether cars, airplanes, boats or whatever) always seem to beg for more performance if you don't have any experience with them. Those who do have experience (which these hot toddlers could easily get) will understand how wonderful the machine is as designed. At least that's my take on it.
Exactly, Tim & John. There isn't the appreciation for the history, nostalgia for the era of early automobiles.