An other coil question.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: An other coil question.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 10:04 am:

Good morning all,

This came with a pile of coils to be rebuild.
I wonder what they are and if they are worth to work on.
Both have the secondary winding open.
Is the one with the "Ford" script on, made of cardboard?

Thanks
Andre
belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 10:12 am:

No, it is made of a soybean / wheat gluten / asbestos composite material. Those date to 1917 - 1918.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 10:13 am:

Andre the Gray one with the ford logo is I believe soybean material


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 08:29 am:

As Royce stated the Ford developed "cast" case coil is made of wheat gluten with asbestos fiber used as a binder.
This coil was Fords first attempt at a redesign of the Model T coil case after the metal top coil was discontinued. According to the ROC (Record of Change) card the cast case coil was adopted December,19 1916 (two months into 1917 production) and made obsolete on March 3, 1918 (six months into 1918 production). The reason for discontinuance was the cast case was dimensionally unstable. It is hard to find them in good enough condition to restore. I just finished restoring one yesterday.
1
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 09:37 am:

Thanks Ron and G.R.,

As there is Asbetos fiber in it, do I need to have a mask to work on is??

Do you know what the other coil is??

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 09:51 am:

Andre

Little problem, the fibers are part of the matrix of the material, not loose, like the old fiber wool insulations. If you are drilling, grinding, or powderizing the case then a mask would be prudent. Airborne fibers are the only source of asbestos concern.


US Federal guidelines: According to federal rules, employers must make sure there's less than 0.1 asbestos fiber per cubic centimeter of air averaged over an eight-hour workday. Workers can be subjected to levels of one fiber per cubic centimeter over periods of half an hour. (In industries like plastics manufacturing, which involves asbestos, the limits are pushed up to half a fiber per cc over the course of a workday, or 2.5 fibers for half an hour.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 10:54 am:

Dan, Andre...an "ordinary" mask doesn't cut it. You need the special mask, fit-tested,with purple filter cartridge to get REAL asbestos protection. Other than that, you're just as well off to hold your breath when you drill into it, walk far away, re-breathe, and then do it again. But frankly, with what few asbestos fibers you'd be ingesting anyway, I wouldn't worry at all about it. I had all that mask, filters, special vacuums, suits, etc. crap long ago when I was the school's certified asbestos manager. (one of the twenty hats I wore!) And all that "stuff" is very expensive.

Oh yeah, just remembered, water is asbestos' worst enemy, so if you're really concerned, keep the area you plan to penetrate as wet as possible without causing any other trouble with the coil (sounds like an oxymoron).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 03:08 pm:

Andre
The Heinze Electric Coil in your first photos were adopted by Ford for a short period for use in the standard 1914 metal coilbox. Notice the coil wood case has terminals locations/spacing just like the KW metal and wood coils used in the metal coilbox adopted in 1914. You do not see many of this type coil today.
When Trent and I investigated the coil genealogy we came to the conclusion that Ford probably needed additional coils for 1914 car production and they bought these coils from Heinze for a short period of time?
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 08:00 pm:

Thanks Ron for the information.

I will try to make it spark again.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 08:22 am:

Ron,
I found In Bruce book "The car that changed the world" a good photo of the coils in the box and a single coil, page 184.
But not a lot of info about them. It just tell that in 1913 Ford started to use metal coil boxes and there for the coils get a standard size, regardless of the supplier. He start building his own coils and boxes but continued to use them of outside supplier as well.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 10:11 am:

Andre
Check the Bruce's book the encyclopedia under the heading "Coil Evolution" and see photo 23 for more information on the Heinze coil you have.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 11:16 am:

Ron ,
I will watch out for it.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 12:26 pm:

Ron and Trent's deduction about Ford needing more coils than KW could deliver or Ford could make is quite probably correct. There are plenty of these coils around; about 98% of them are on shelves. I reproduce all of the Heinze points except these. Their elaborate construction would make them very expensive; in addition, many coils, more than half of the survivors I would say (based on a sampling of my own rather large supply) have points that are decent and usable as they are. If a demand materializes I would explore their reproduction but for now there seems to be enough good originals to go around for those who use these coils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 12:53 pm:

R.V.,
This answered my next question. I was wondering if the Model T Heinze Coil points T-4636/37 that Snyder offers in there parts list fit my coil but I suppose it will not.
I will clean up the points and try to make the coil spark again with the old points.


Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 01:07 pm:

Here few photos of the cleaned points.

Andre
Belgium


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