How do you separate the rear axle and drive shaft?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: How do you separate the rear axle and drive shaft?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 06:16 pm:

how do you separate the rear axle and drive shaft?

I have the front and rear axle book by Chaffin.

It is stuck together. I do not want to hammer too hard unless you tell me that is how it is down. I am thinking about rigging up a bottle jack and chain and pulling it apart.

Any suggestions?

Should the drive shaft come off by itself and the axle housing stay together

Thank you in advance.

Bob

PS: the nut over the drive shaft roller bear housing looks like it is solid metal. What's up with that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 06:29 pm:

The pinion housing is likely stuck in the pumpkin. Get a block of wood and tap the driveshaft bearing housing away from the pumpkin. If is standard gears it should come completely apart, if its 3/1 gears you will have to split the pumpkin to get it out. Unless you are sure the babbitt thrust washers have been replaced with bronze you should take the assembly completely apart and check it out.

Using a chain and a bottle jack is a prescription for a disaster. You need a little more persistence and patience. Anytime you have to force something, you are likely to screw it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 06:55 pm:

Got it , thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 07:25 pm:

The large headed bolt you removed from the d.s. bearing spool is the inner sleeve retainer - put it back in for now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 07:40 pm:

Finesse, not force.
Early rear ends are easy to damage expensively.
Early pinion spools have studs that run through the length of it. They tend to seize inside, especially if it has been years since it has been apart.
Remove the nuts at the wishbone end of the radius rods, the ones holding the torque tube back.
Remove all six of the nuts around the pinion bearing spool. These studs and nuts are an odd size even then, and can be difficult and expensive to replace. Hope and pray on each one that the stud comes out with the nut (they usually do not). SOMETIMES you can "double" nut (lock) the nut with another nut onto a stud and coerce (do not actually force!) the stud to back out. Once all the nuts and as many studs as will cooperate have been removed, the fun begins.
From a practical standpoint, on the early style, you cannot split the axle housings until the spool has been removed. As an absolute minimum, all three studs on one housing side must be removed, then MAYBE one housing can be pulled. Generally it is best to get the spool removed from the axle housings first.
Once all the nuts and as many studs as will cooperate are removed, using whatever means readily available (chain hoist, engine hoist, come-along, rope and pulleys and a tree limb), tie onto the u-joint end of the torque tube and lift the rear end with the axle housings lifted to about one inch off the ground. Now apply copious amounts of a good penetrating oil to the remaining studs.
Go do something else for awhile.
With a little bit of luck, when you return, you could find that the axle housings have fallen harmlessly that one inch onto the ground. Then you may easily just lift the torque tube and drive shaft the rest of the way off.
If not, light tapping with a small hammer carefully on the remaining stud ends might give just enough added persuasion. Do not hit hard. Try to not damage the stud threads (that thread die is expensive IF you can find one). Besides, again, finesse, not force. Vibration from a small hammer often does as much good as a heavy blow from a big hammer, especially with a little pull provided by gravity.

Just a few suggestions.
Good luck!
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brass TT on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 07:46 pm:

I wonder if in the top left picture, where you are using a chisel on the axle housing, have you taken the rear hubs off the axles ??? (you need to ).

Not trying to be smart, but perhaps you need to find a fellow T owner who knows what to do and offer him a few beers to help you out ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 07:52 pm:

Since they are studs, not bolts, the carrier for the pinion bearing can be very hard to remove. In situations where I could not get it done with a little persuasion I use another tactic that is less likely to cause damage. I have ground down nuts so I can jam them on the studs and use them to remove the studs to make it easier to get the torque tube off the pumpkin. Sometimes it only takes removing one or two to get the job done other times it takes more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 08:42 pm:

I first would strongly suggest you buy yourself a nice good sized BRASS Hammer and a few BRASS PUNCHS and CHISELS. I have all 3 of those and they allow you to tap gently on things without leaving big marks or any marks at all. Since that unit is marked 191B then it has 7/16 drilled holes through it and the studs are likely 1/32 less than that so they may not be holding it as much as the sealer and/or fit of the inner sleeve and rear end halves. Main thing is be patient and work around seeing WHAT might come loose. The spool (the part marked 191B) must release from both halves of the rear end but there is no rule that says one half of the rear end can perhaps come apart and may not be as tightly stuck to its half of the drive shaft spool. There are 3 parts so move things around and tap lightly with a large brass hammer to see if you cannot get any 2 of the 3 pieces to release from each other just enough to get your brass chisel in between them. The spool sleeve is inserted into the rear end about 3/8 inch and the rest of it is stuck inside the spool and may or may not be a press fit into it. The set screw bolt you removed is holding the inner sleeve into the spool but as Steve Tomaso said, I would put that back in for now since it holds something inside that you cannot get at until you have the other 3 pieces separated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 08:49 pm:

No insult taken. I should see if a T friend will do this for me but first I will try suggestions above.

The rear is off the car.All the nuts are off the pumpkin and drive shaft. The radius rods are frozen at the ujoint location.

Did you say the


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 09:20 pm:

Put the bolts and nuts holding the pumpkin halves together back in place. You should be able to remove the nuts from the radius rods at the u joint housing. You should also be able to remove the bolts attaching the radius rods to the rear axle flanges.

I suggest you let things sit for 24 hours and then start over reading the axle manual and the Ford Model T shop manual sections on the rear axle and driveshaft from scratch. You need a breath of fresh air and a better feel for how the rear axle goes together and comes apart.

I think you will find a fresh look and fresh start will simplify everything you are trying to do. Don't get flustered everyone has a first time for anything one attempts to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 09:53 am:

Hello Bob:
FWIW, testing your pinion engagement and verifying perpendicular of this drive shaft can later be complicated if you do not fully remove the radius rods. If the head end jamb nuts are frozen, soak these with a penetrating oil...I use a product called PB Blaster that many auto parts houses sell. If you have the equipment, you can also apply a Smoke Wrench to loosen these up. IMPORTANT REASSEMBLY HEADS UP...Once your drive shaft assembly is complete where the pinion assembled depth has been confirmed and universal pin location is acceptable, loosely install the radius rods on the driveshaft head before plugging the driveshaft into the rearend housings for final assembly. You will later establish "driveshaft to axle" perpendicular by adjusting and locking down these 2 connections. Length of the early radius rods can vary, and you may otherwise find it impossible to position the readend side of the rods over the housing tubes.
Regards,
Scott


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